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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 23:58:02 GMT
Not sure if you've dug deep enough into this whole mess to catch on, but this is pretty standard fare. During the previous NDA/blackout, they were able to tell us similar vague nonsense, but nothing of the details. I'm familiar with a bit of that, though examples to be handily furnished to folks like Jim Sterling would be swell. Which is why I have to wonder if it will ever occur to 22cans that an NDA is meaningless when it is used to preserve the breach of a previous contract. EDIT - And how they're selling the game currently upon the Steam store: What kind of liar came up with this complete fabrication? |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Apr 15, 2015 2:57:03 GMT
This just in: 22cans now hiding behind an NDA as to why they aren't really participating in the Early Access program and explanation on how 22cans is supposedly in a "PC-focused sprint" as they're selling Godus by in the Steam store: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/6/618459109269391232/Aynen, on more PR liability: "Personally, I don't think it ended up being a mobile game, as it hasn't 'ended up' at all. It's still very much in progress. Much of what you can see now in the current version is subject to change. I've seen some of the incoming changes myself, but I can't go into detail about it. (NDA) The reason I didn't speak up in this thread is because it tends to simply turn into an 'is not!' 'is too!' kind of thing between those who do think the game will change and those who don't. So I try to stick to just moderating." Except when he opens his gob to exchange which foot resides in it up to the kneecap... So apparently he can speak about the upcoming changes existing but the details are covered by the NDA...wait...discussing that there are changes isn't covered by the same NDA? Is he trying to break BS Meters or is this 22cans' new community management strategy? Tell false hopes, but then hide the details conveniently behind an "NDA"? We've heard this same BS line over and over, through the last 2 years - from each of the CM team members, the Mods, and the Devs themselves. It's complete bullshit and I have washed my hands of them. 22Cans is an empty rusted bean tin. |
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Post by hardly on Apr 15, 2015 4:17:05 GMT
This just in: 22cans now hiding behind an NDA as to why they aren't really participating in the Early Access program and explanation on how 22cans is supposedly in a "PC-focused sprint" as they're selling Godus by in the Steam store: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/6/618459109269391232/Aynen, on more PR liability: "Personally, I don't think it ended up being a mobile game, as it hasn't 'ended up' at all. It's still very much in progress. Much of what you can see now in the current version is subject to change. I've seen some of the incoming changes myself, but I can't go into detail about it. (NDA) The reason I didn't speak up in this thread is because it tends to simply turn into an 'is not!' 'is too!' kind of thing between those who do think the game will change and those who don't. So I try to stick to just moderating." Except when he opens his gob to exchange which foot resides in it up to the kneecap... So apparently he can speak about the upcoming changes existing but the details are covered by the NDA...wait...discussing that there are changes isn't covered by the same NDA? Is he trying to break BS Meters or is this 22cans' new community management strategy? Tell false hopes, but then hide the details conveniently behind an "NDA"? We've heard this same BS line over and over, through the last 2 years - from each of the CM team members, the Mods, and the Devs themselves. It's complete bullshit and I have washed my hands of them. 22Cans is an empty rusted bean tin. Wow that is strong words from you. Not unreasonable but you are normally on the moderate side. Anything especially pissed you off or have you just reached your limit of stalling/censorship? |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 15, 2015 10:13:28 GMT
I'm still watching the development of Godus because I'm curious how this saga will end (and ultimately, whether the whole debacle is going to contribute to driving changes in the game industry regarding Early Access and crowd-funding) but as far as 22Cans making promises and whatever is concerned, I am really beyond giving a shit. I know that Godus is an awful game, and no amount on minor tweaking and whatever by the development team is going to change it in any substantial way. I don't read the dev updates anymore because they're all completely the same and carry very little payload when changes are actually applied to opt-in. The Steam community is almost dead, with Aynen and Muir (bizarrely) leaping around like cheerleaders in an empty stadium, pissing off any fans who tentatively turn up.
Are 22Cans still making money? We still don't have the 2014 financial results so we have yet to substantiate PM's claims of "tens of millions of pounds" of revenue (although of course he did backtrack on this ridiculous claim a few weeks later). maybe the mobile is still making sales. I can't imagine they're selling too much through Steam these days, given that the review consensus is "mostly negative" and I feel that people are increasingly wising up to Early Access. They need to get a move on and get the Trail out of the door.
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 15, 2015 12:52:57 GMT
I'm still watching the development of Godus because I'm curious how this saga will end (and ultimately, whether the whole debacle is going to contribute to driving changes in the game industry regarding Early Access and crowd-funding) but as far as 22Cans making promises and whatever is concerned, I am really beyond giving a shit. I know that Godus is an awful game, and no amount on minor tweaking and whatever by the development team is going to change it in any substantial way. I don't read the dev updates anymore because they're all completely the same and carry very little payload when changes are actually applied to opt-in. The Steam community is almost dead, with Aynen and Muir (bizarrely) leaping around like cheerleaders in an empty stadium, pissing off any fans who tentatively turn up. Are 22Cans still making money? We still don't have the 2014 financial results so we have yet to substantiate PM's claims of "tens of millions of pounds" of revenue (although of course he did backtrack on this ridiculous claim a few weeks later). maybe the mobile is still making sales. I can't imagine they're selling too much through Steam these days, given that the review consensus is "mostly negative" and I feel that people are increasingly wising up to Early Access. They need to get a move on and get the Trail out of the door. I really don't know why I still hang on (I've even tried to alter Godus myself via the modding!), I really just want to see how this all turns out to. Financials would be an interesting read. At the end of the day I was just hoping for a good quality god game to be an improvement to what had come before, in story and gameplay (I'm not bothered by multiplayer TBH). The more I look at Godus on the PC the less I think it's gameplay or story is as good as Populous the Beginning (I know thats not one of Peters) or Black and White 1 & 2. I think I'd rather replay them. One things for sure I'll wait for decent reviews on completed god game in the future. Saying that and I know people don't care what it is like on mobile\tablets, but for what its worth I actually don't think it was to bad compared to other games on those devices but hugely disappointing on the PC. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Apr 15, 2015 16:26:34 GMT
We've heard this same BS line over and over, through the last 2 years - from each of the CM team members, the Mods, and the Devs themselves. It's complete bullshit and I have washed my hands of them. 22Cans is an empty rusted bean tin. Wow that is strong words from you. Not unreasonable but you are normally on the moderate side. Anything especially pissed you off or have you just reached you're limit of stalling/censorship? Yeah, I usually try to stay on an even keel and not get too hostile with my words - preferring tact and civility instead - but even I have limits. As you can see, I haven't been commenting much lately, specifically about Godus and 22Cans because there's no room in my life for dealing with such obtuse and obvious ineptitude. I have no more energy to deal with this train wreck. I have a lot more to say on the matter and reasons, but at this time I feel it's not worth my energy or concern; enough has been said already without lasting effect. There are far more interesting and necessary things to involve myself with to bother swimming in this tripe any longer. That said: There is a changing tide coming and they will find themselves caught in the undertow, in due time, mark my word. |
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Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 15, 2015 17:06:07 GMT
Wow that is strong words from you. Not unreasonable but you are normally on the moderate side. Anything especially pissed you off or have you just reached you're limit of stalling/censorship? Yeah, I usually try to stay on an even keel and not get too hostile with my words - preferring tact and civility instead - but even I have limits. As you can see, I haven't been commenting much lately, specifically about Godus and 22Cans because there's no room in my life for dealing with such obtuse and obvious ineptitude. I have no more energy to deal with this train wreck. I have a lot more to say on the matter and reasons, but at this time I feel it's not worth my energy or concern; enough has been said already without lasting effect. There are far more interesting and necessary things to involve myself with to bother swimming in this tripe any longer. That said: There is a changing tide coming and they will find themselves caught in the undertow, in due time, mark my word. Marking 13thGeneral's word... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 20:09:54 GMT
*sigh* steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618458030685440308/I thought this was a mobile game, aren't mobile games supposed to be much cheaper than this? At this point in time the PC and Mobile versions are quite similar, but over the course of time we'll be changing that.  Where have we heard this before? Oh, all throughout Godus' development and even before it. At this point I suppose that we should be the ones ashamed, for unfairly holding accountable pathological liars who cannot help themselves due to an untreated mental condition. With that being said then wouldn't it be fair to charge a similar price for what it is worth right now, as they are so similar. Lest we also not forget the steam rule which we dare not quote, requiring price parity across platforms. Even at this point in time, the Desktop version still has features that cannot be found in the Mobile version. Dave has been invited to do his job if he expects people to buy this gold brick as anything other than a cursory-ported mobile title...and lately, I can't even be arsed to load up the mobile version anymore. Now they again expect people to drop £14.99/$19.99/¥ 1,980 for a ported version the game's own developers can't really detail about else it would show how little difference there really is. Then of course their moderators keep some folks like this fellow around (even after inviting to report) where some are trolling by trying to completely misrepresent any form of contract law (maybe that's for the moderators to offer thanks so they can offer "warnings" for arguing with this wind-up merchant): steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/6/618459109269391232/#c618459297892144616Of course, where as getting salty when people mention that they are bound by legal contracts they've signed is perfectly reasonable. Right? Of course it's reasonable when the legal contract you argue should be upheld is used to cover up breach of another legal contract 22cans made previously. Or does a contract only matter when it is convenient for you and 22cans? Breach of a legal contract eh? Someone should probably start pressing legal charges if that's the case... Why do I mention this? Because of a post a couple of posts earlier... steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/6/618459109269391232/#c618459297891436525I'm just amazed to see how badly this community is being managed since my and G.K.s departure. Keep locking, keep moving, keep banning folks that's exactly what you need. Ha. While I have noted a couple of gaffes in previous PR/CM, the current form seems to be aiming for a performance a wee bit more clownshoes. And Sam brings up a good point. Yes, 22cans keeps the fellow around who is clearly trolling the Kickstarter backers along with anyone who has bought the overglorified sandbox simulator, but when a dissatisfied customer gets a bit heated 22cans will instead ban them like they have a convenient escape from doing their own jobs. If 22cans were trying to weather the media s***storm, or try to escape it, they've been doing it the entirely wrong way - as they've been providing plenty of information for follow-up articles. I did let them know part of why I was following the title was to collate more info around the game*, along with a bit of personal interest in the game that was set aside because of obvious problems in development, but held off because they haven't really been able to answer how this game is going to suddenly not become a microtransaction vehicle or resemble a PC game. Let's see if they will finally bother to. * - I'm not only providing journalists with the information, I am also part of several of Early Access advisory groups that were created from similar abuses by developers: steamcommunity.com/groups/dissenters-anonymous/discussions/2/618458030682325898/ Nobody really tackled the title before because...where to start on Peter? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 20:46:28 GMT
Finally, an answer: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618458030685440308/#c618459405707248580If you seriously expect people to buy what otherwise appears to be a gold brick, detail those features. In-depth world editor Ability to create your own levels Combat on Opt-In Raise land And everyones favorite, the The Pit of DoomProvide details for this claim as well, because this claim has been made before...and yet the PC and Mobile versions are now quite similar. The Combat on Opt-In will be the first major change to the game, then we've got Fabs' top secret work before he left hint hint.But once we've got Combat implement and fully working we'll be moving on to the next feature. So is combat going to be PC-only, since that was the answer for more details about "At this point in time the PC and Mobile versions are quite similar, but over the course of time we'll be changing that"? |
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Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 16, 2015 22:02:42 GMT
Where's the raise land then and why should we praise and sing hallelujah to that? It's a function that should have been part of the construct in it's most basic form.
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Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
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Steam: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 16, 2015 22:31:43 GMT
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Post by heggers on Apr 17, 2015 8:07:05 GMT
Looks to me like they're doing sweet fuck all... Its a joke that a team that size needs a Community Manager at all (that being said its a joke that a developer like 22Cans needs one in general). Most other dev teams of similar size do it all themselves and are able to make better progress in the same amount of time. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 8:42:48 GMT
Finally, an answer: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618458030685440308/#c618459405707248580In-depth world editor Ability to create your own levels Combat on Opt-In Raise land And everyones favorite, the The Pit of DoomThe Combat on Opt-In will be the first major change to the game, then we've got Fabs' top secret work before he left hint hint.But once we've got Combat implement and fully working we'll be moving on to the next feature. So is combat going to be PC-only, since that was the answer for more details about "At this point in time the PC and Mobile versions are quite similar, but over the course of time we'll be changing that"? That's totally bullshit. Why should i be happy that basic "features" of the game they promised are now pc only (like combat)? The other Features like in depth world Editor or ability to create own Levels would have never been necessary if they had been able to implement a working random map function. But that didn't work with their mobile focusing and the wish to guide players the path they wanted. It's the same with the great modding functionality they try to sell us as great gift - an easy way to give away the accountability for the mobile balancing ("we gave you the possibility to mod the timers, shut up now").
I am at a point where i say take all this bullshit of code and click the format button, then take an eraser programm and let it run 100 times over the damn hdd, then take a hammer and hit the hdd until it's a piece of scrap metal. It's not about the quality of the code, but even the best coder can't make a good game out of a design failure like that. It's not possible to fix it even with ten new designer allowed to change minor features when the basic fundament is wrong.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 17, 2015 8:50:23 GMT
The dev updates could all be summarised as "working on stuff" and "fixing stuff" and is about as informative. The warband development feels like it's been going on forever. Is it taking this long because everyone is being extensively diverted by other things, or is it extremely difficult because they're having to build it on such a terrible foundation, or is the team simply not that good?
This is the danger of the daily updates for 22Cans. Because they're obviously being restrained about what they're prepared to actually tell us, it looks like they're making an extremely half-assed attempt to achieve very little. It would be better to have a weekly update where they share actual information, including the "secret" projects (I thought there weren't going to be secrets anymore?).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 10:52:15 GMT
The dev updates could all be summarised as "working on stuff" and "fixing stuff" and is about as informative. The warband development feels like it's been going on forever. Is it taking this long because everyone is being extensively diverted by other things, or is it extremely difficult because they're having to build it on such a terrible foundation, or is the team simply not that good? This is the danger of the daily updates for 22Cans. Because they're obviously being restrained about what they're prepared to actually tell us, it looks like they're making an extremely half-assed attempt to achieve very little. It would be better to have a weekly update where they share actual information, including the "secret" projects (I thought there weren't going to be secrets anymore?). The curious part is where they're making a show of activity...but then do it in such a bad way that it's getting embarrassing to watch. They have only a few of their developers offer an update so that at first impression it only looks like there's ~6 developers despite the claims of 9 or so. Then there's the problem with Annah not being in the Daily Dev Update or on the 22cans roster. It takes more than two weeks to make a portrait pic? Yes, that's the given reason. Wait...do they have artists there at 22cans? I do appreciate that there is some communication, but some of these reasons we're expected to believe are just silly...along with expecting, again, that cutting the dev team somehow means that the game is still in full development. Sundance: Indeed, if that is all they can really claim for the differences...yay, people can edit the suck out of a mobile port that doesn't really keep that many people because it has mostly filler for game content put behind pay-or-wait mechanics (or be an evil god to not wait on PC). |
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Post by hardly on Apr 17, 2015 11:15:48 GMT
The dev updates could all be summarised as "working on stuff" and "fixing stuff" and is about as informative. The warband development feels like it's been going on forever. Is it taking this long because everyone is being extensively diverted by other things, or is it extremely difficult because they're having to build it on such a terrible foundation, or is the team simply not that good? This is the danger of the daily updates for 22Cans. Because they're obviously being restrained about what they're prepared to actually tell us, it looks like they're making an extremely half-assed attempt to achieve very little. It would be better to have a weekly update where they share actual information, including the "secret" projects (I thought there weren't going to be secrets anymore?). The curious part is where they're making a show of activity...but then do it in such a bad way that it's getting embarrassing to watch. They have only a few of their developers offer an update so that at first impression it only looks like there's ~6 developers despite the claims of 9 or so. Then there's the problem with Annah not being in the Daily Dev Update or on the 22cans roster. It takes more than two weeks to make a portrait pic? Yes, that's the given reason. Wait...do they have artists there at 22cans? I do appreciate that there is some communication, but some of these reasons we're expected to believe are just silly...along with expecting, again, that cutting the dev team somehow means that the game is still in full development. Sundance: Indeed, if that is all they can really claim for the differences...yay, people can edit the suck out of a mobile port that doesn't really keep that many people because it has mostly filler for game content put behind pay-or-wait mechanics (or be an evil god to not wait on PC). Isn't Annah an artist? Couldn't she make her own pic? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 12:03:52 GMT
Isn't Annah an artist? Couldn't she make her own pic? I was wondering if the irony would have occurred to 22cans at any point about that. Apparently one of the other four artists on the 22cans public roster (which still includes Fabs) would have to be pulled over from The Trial to make a special effort that couldn't have been done in the last two weeks or so. The excuses about why they couldn't detail her work without a picture (or even a placeholder) is really silly, though I do have to thank Richard for answering even though it appears to be the company li ne. |
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Post by mindless on Apr 17, 2015 15:19:16 GMT
Isn't Annah an artist? Couldn't she make her own pic? I was wondering if the irony would have occurred to 22cans at any point about that. Apparently one of the other four artists on the 22cans public roster (which still includes Fabs) would have to be pulled over from The Trial to make a special effort that couldn't have been done in the last two weeks or so. The excuses about why they couldn't detail her work without a picture (or even a placeholder) is really silly, though I do have to thank Richard for answering even though it appears to be the company li ne. Just let her use PM's portrait as a place holder, there will be no confusion in the community because we all know he has fully jumped ship onto HMS Betrayal. |
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Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 17, 2015 17:12:33 GMT
Perhaps I should make a mental note to split some of these posts from this thread.
I will think about it.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 17, 2015 18:35:00 GMT
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