Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 14, 2013 12:43:48 GMT
It seems rather strange that while I feel like I'm done with playing Godus I still feel a need to talk about it. I think the reason might be that I've been following the development of it from the start. I feel like I am part of a community of people that has been doing so for about 10 months. I guess I just can't shrug that off.
It's also because I had such high hopes for Godus and I feel like I have been let down so much that I feel a need to talk about it. Whether the devs will read it or not makes no difference to me any longer since I've given up hope that they'd listen to ideas and opinions of the community. It has become obvious that they have selective hearing.
I am assuming there will be other people who feel the same way, so I hope that some of the people I have posted with on the 22cans forum will find their way here. And maybe even some new folks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 19:50:32 GMT
Yes it's strange, but I feel the same way. I think I feel cheated. Yes I know they never said what the game would really be and they used a "maybe" when ever possible ... But that's the main reason, if i think back i have the feeling they avoided certain questions back in kickstarter.
It's terrible when i think about what a great game this could have been. Now i have no hope that it will be a game i could have fun with. Yes it's addictive, but that doesn't mean it's fun.
It is terrible to have the feeling that I am/was a lab rat to test their f2p game.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 14, 2013 20:41:39 GMT
I feel the same way. I can't believe that it basically cost me 150 euros to work for many hours on something that in the end I will have no interest in whatsoever. At least there's a lesson well learned.
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Post by muumipeikko on Oct 15, 2013 9:12:15 GMT
The sadest thing for me is the small group who really started the boards have largly been pushed off it by a mixture of bad moderating and lack of interest. In the old days you could argue and complain, nowerdays the second you complain to loud the thread gets locked. I hope after this project that the 22Cans managment team reflect and realise that effectivly outsourcing the public face of the project to 2.5 Augers was a unmitigating PR disaster. The reality is what they are doing, trying to start a business from the ground up, is difficult and they are going to make mistakes but I take my hats off to them. It's a shame they wern't more open about he F2P but I actually think this was more down to lack of vision at te start and not fully thinking through the fact the mobile market can't really support a £20 game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2013 18:30:04 GMT
Yes it's terrible. When i think back how it all began and how promising everything was. Everyone made suggestions and people even shared their hardware specs without anyone asking them. But even there almost nothing came from the devs. The communication was really bad from the beginning. I am sure this could have got a great community and that could have helped to sell the game. Instead they hide the game from us and make any announcement through the press. The augurs made it really bad, but it was bad before, too. Look how polite anybody was, we respected everything they wanted. Not one alpha tester made a video or posted screenshots, even if they were not happy with the game. First screenshot was posted before the release on steam (because of the gemshop).
Maybe it's the best way to make a lot of money. Time will show. But I don't think that it was really clever. I am pretty sure that all of the EPB (extremly positive backer) will be gone after some time. If the f2p on mobile does not work good enough they will get real problems. I don't think they will get many sales on steam if the game goes on like this. And a new kickstarter? I doubt they will get a lot of money.
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Post by muumipeikko on Oct 15, 2013 21:55:54 GMT
I think if PM did another kickstarter he would be lucky to raise 100k, while I have the upmost respect for him professionally, I'm torn on whether he bent me over on the kickstarter or whether he just doesn't get the whole concept. I think he could have made Godus a big profitable community with just a little effort, for example I paid out £322, the only reason I didn't go higher was they had nothing at a higher level I wanted. Had they invested in the community and made the community feel almost an extended part of the family I would have definitely found a reason to meet further cash calls. As things stand, I would like to see Godus succeed for the sake of the devs whose livelihoods depend on it but I won't be making any in game purchases...
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 16, 2013 1:44:33 GMT
I would never back another Kickstarter project by Peter Molyneux. In fact I might make it my mission to try to prevent as many people as possible from getting duped by him. Why? Because I care. I would also never make any in-game purchases in Godus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 18:32:14 GMT
If it stays like it is now - I think I will never play godus anymore ... so I think I will never make an in-game purchase, too. I'am not sure about Mr. Molyneux. I really respected his work and he was one of my Top 10 gamedesigner. But, I only see two possible reasons why godus is what it is. 1. They planned that and tricked us to give them our money to make a f2p game and get rich. 2. They had no clue what they want to do at the time of kickstarter (and maybe now, too). Both of them do not contribute to my respect for Mr. Molyneux.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 20:44:30 GMT
I've been a fan of Molyneux since dungeon keeper and always grew up enjoying most of his work such as black and white and fable 1 maybe 2 if I was in a good mood. Then I backed him on godus going "yes!" about time we had a new god game and by god I wish I never did what the hell was he thinking when it first got funded things were in good motion and I was looking forward to it but then it just slowly died on updates, Then onto game updates itself and with the 22cans offical forums pretty much dead since june I made the decision to remeber peter by his old work when he actually did the code himself rather than just sit and talk.
Godus is surely the last flop I'll support from peter ever again and I hate to say it but I wish I used the £15 to get Oddworld Abe's New 'N' Tasty that comes out later this year.
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mark
Participator
Posts: 13
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Post by mark on Feb 25, 2014 20:51:56 GMT
I think this is a last ditched attempt to gain value from something that inherently no longer holds any value. RIP GODUS, killed in equal measure by Ignorance, Arrogance & PR Spin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 20:59:53 GMT
[...] The augurs made it really bad, but it was bad before, too. [...] I've read this often, and I'm beginning to wonder in what way I, and other moderators / augurs, made it worse. Could you give examples, or explain why you feel the moderators made it worse? ps. sorry for cherry picking.
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Post by Qetesh on Feb 25, 2014 21:11:13 GMT
The censorship made it worse for me. The feeling of being handled and herded was insulting at times. I know I have read it a few times, but it was mainly not Umbra that caused this feeling with a few exceptions where sorry, you did for me. Also this whole dual handle where you actually have mislead to stay hidden was distasteful to many besides myself. The whole feeling of having mostly spin being spewed put the nail on that coffin for me.
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mark
Participator
Posts: 13
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Post by mark on Feb 25, 2014 21:17:33 GMT
[...] The augurs made it really bad, but it was bad before, too. [...] I've read this often, and I'm beginning to wonder in what way I, and other moderators / augurs, made it worse. Could you give examples, or explain why you feel the moderators made it worse? ps. sorry for cherry picking. I don't believe that the Augurs personally made it worse, more that the action of creating a mechanism that allowed 22Cans to remove themselves from direct contact made it worse. Some may see it that the Augers were just moderators of the forums, there to filter what we said and how we said it. More than that though, you were a tool, an asset to be used, which allowed 22Cans to filter out the white noise of the forum community from the dev team. Essentially, the Augers were an Ad Blocker, the forum community were the Ads, the Dev team the poor old end user just looking for some piece and quiet on the internet. There is nothing wrong with the Auguers themselves; most decent forums have mods and it's a non issue. I believe the problem lies in the perceived motive behind the creation and functions of the 22Cans mods, moderating down is fine & normal practice, but being used as a firewall to protect themselves from their own community. It's cowardice, Ignorance and arrogance all bundled up into one blue bird package on the part of the 22Cans Board. It's not that the community hates the Augers personally, it's that we hate what the Augers are being used for. It might just be me, but I don't think so. I hope that adds some context to the general feeling.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 25, 2014 21:17:45 GMT
I didn't really have a problem with Umbra, but I must say I found Geminutite to be highly annoying. Always right there to polish the turds and sprinkle some cherries on top. I believe the problem lies in the perceived motive behind the creation and functions of the 22Cans mods, moderating down is fine & normal practice, but being used as a firewall to protect themselves from their own community. It's cowardice, Ignorance and arrogance all bundled up into one blue bird package on the part of the 22Cans Board. Yeah that sounds about right! That plus I just really don't seem to like Geminutite very much both as an augur and a normal member.
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Post by heathen on Feb 25, 2014 21:24:31 GMT
Was trying to think how to put it, but I think Mark summed it up pretty damn well!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2014 21:26:07 GMT
By the way, how do you guys like the icons of the 'blue birds'. It seems to be an accepted colloquialism now. I made those icons! And yes.. Geminu has the intent to 'defend' 22Cans, even beyond what seems sane. I am sorry that indeed, the Augurs have taken on the role of 'filter'. Now that you say it, it is exactly how it feels. It's like, i've been doing a job the wrong way the entire time, but no one ever mentioned it in a way that made sense to me. (Use the heavy end of the hammer! 'But this works too!') And now, I see exactly what ticked people off. Instead of letting the community grow closer to the devs, as the intent was, the exact reverse was achieved.
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Post by heathen on Feb 25, 2014 21:30:55 GMT
It's so refreshing seeing you post without worry Umbra
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Post by Qetesh on Feb 25, 2014 21:38:53 GMT
Yes, and it feels good to have a place where all can speak together. The game is now available to anyone with a steam account so it makes sense to have place where we can all talk about it.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 25, 2014 21:40:47 GMT
By the way, how do you guys like the icons of the 'blue birds'. It seems to be an accepted colloquialism now. I made those icons! Good job on those icons mate. And yes.. Geminu has the intent to 'defend' 22Cans, even beyond what seems sane. Indeed. I am sorry that indeed, the Augurs have taken on the role of 'filter'. Now that you say it, it is exactly how it feels. It's like, i've been doing a job the wrong way the entire time, but no one ever mentioned it in a way that made sense to me. (Use the heavy end of the hammer! 'But this works too!') And now, I see exactly what ticked people off. Instead of letting the community grow closer to the devs, as the intent was, the exact reverse was achieved. Right before the augurs were installed there was an explosion of negative posts on the forum. Right after the augurs were there there were posts being edited, moved or even deleted. It felt like 22Cans sent out their watchdogs to fight back against the negativity. I understand that you did what you thought was right because that's what you were told to do. I'm glad that you see the other side of it.
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heggers
Master
Posts: 203
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by heggers on Feb 25, 2014 21:41:12 GMT
This whole forum seems a lot more chilled than the backers forum. Its really nice. Whenever I am over there it always feels like a bed of toxicity (doubt the few posts I ever made really helped things either). Might be due to it being young but I hope not.
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