Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 2, 2015 11:09:31 GMT
What makes you so sure it was the result of under-researched, lazy ignorance, rather than a deliberate interpretation for the benefit of story-telling? The fact that they used Egyptian theme and then just switched to totally unrelated naming. And if they did that on purpose, it would make it even worse since harming highly valuable art on purpose is deliberate vandalism. It's not just Egyptian mythology, also Norse, Chinese, Mayan, basically whatever. Anyway, you don't like it, nuff said. |
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 2, 2015 11:13:06 GMT
And one less again.You see, I don't mind use of mythology. But it always tick me of when they material used is researched only partially, on the surface. For example, I cringe almost every time I read stories of cards in Devil Maker. Yes, I know that I look unreasonable from your viewpoint, but to me the world mythology is a very important treasure (historical, anthropological AND psychological) that people like that trample and destroy. And the part about trampling and destruction isn't just my subjective feeling, but an effect that stems from people like you not actually bothering to check the sources and pay no interest to them because you prefer to watch "just fiction, not a documentary or anything". And I can bet my fingers that The one who've seen everything has more win in it that all the SG series combined. But you will never bother reading it, because it's outside your everyday field of view (it may have entered it now, but I'm unsure if you will ever bother and whether you will hate it before starting because of what I wrote just in spite because I may have offended you). And when they take those things and bring them into your FoV, they reach there so distorted and devoid of original rich imagery, it's less than a mere shadow of the original. That's why I can't stand such mutilation. It's because of people who call Osiris . Again, it is Science FICTION. I am not debating the fictional merits of fiction, because that would be asinine. I could give a rats ass about something fictional not being true and yes so do many "people like me". I also watch Cosmos, but seriously, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Lighten up and smell some roses. I like my field of view just fine and your offending me or not does not affect my viewing or reading choices at all. You're proving my point, especially on the part you totally don't even understand what I mean. My problem is not with the fiction being fiction. My problem is that they take a superior work of fiction, poetry and subtlety, take the least important part and then mispresent the source by shallow reading and affirming Dunning-Kruger effect. The viewer will think "I've heard about this" and go away since " he already knows enough" or even worse, " He heard of that version first and therefore, it's true". It further diminishes the chance to read the good things. ANd that trades the superior, more well written fiction with deep archetypes, layers of meaning, great semantic rhymes and unbelievably solid story. |
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 11:44:39 GMT
Again, it is Science FICTION. I am not debating the fictional merits of fiction, because that would be asinine. I could give a rats ass about something fictional not being true and yes so do many "people like me". I also watch Cosmos, but seriously, one thing has nothing to do with the other. Lighten up and smell some roses. I like my field of view just fine and your offending me or not does not affect my viewing or reading choices at all. You're proving my point, especially on the part you totally don't even understand what I mean. My problem is not with the fiction being fiction. My problem is that they take a superior work of fiction, poetry and subtlety, take the least important part and then mispresent the source by shallow reading and affirming Dunning-Kruger effect. The viewer will think "I've heard about this" and go away since " he already knows enough" or even worse, " He heard of that version first and therefore, it's true". It further diminishes the chance to read the good things. ANd that trades the superior, more well written fiction with deep archetypes, layers of meaning, great semantic rhymes and unbelievably solid story. There was no point to prove. I know you love to debate but this is not a debatable issue. People can and should have diverse interests. One can like the most snobby pretentious "I am smarter than you" and also enjoy a really stupid but funny "Toilet jokes R Us" and still be either really intelligent or dumb as a stick. It is judgmental and elitist to assume otherwise. I might love my coffee black and bitter, others might love it sweet, and more yet creamy with flavors added. Now, I like my tea on the other hand with honey and lemon, but some want theirs with cream and sugar or more like herbal ...and so on and so on. This does not make anyone on wrong on any account, correct? What you are doing is making judgments on what people are, based on if they like coffee or tea and how they like each and what liking tea as well as coffee does to the way they want their coffee. It does not. We are not lab rats, we are just people. You can make a study about anything. You would not like some I have read about people like us who post on forums, I think they are full of whooey, but that is just IMHO. You can also create theories about anything but sometimes people just want some damn tea and sometimes people just want some damn coffee. Bully for you, you love what YOU deem as superior, but you cannot seem to accept it is also just as grand for Bubba to love his Two Broke Girls since HE would deem that as superior and for you to declare otherwise would just make you sound like an intellectual snob that does indeed think he knows better than him. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and nobody made you judge and jury of what or how anyone should watch or read anything. |
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 11:57:00 GMT
What makes you so sure it was the result of under-researched, lazy ignorance, rather than a deliberate interpretation for the benefit of story-telling? The fact that they used Egyptian theme and then just switched to totally unrelated naming. And if they did that on purpose, it would make it even worse since harming highly valuable art on purpose is deliberate vandalism. What they did is make a story. Just as millions and millions of others have been doing. Who are you to say this story based on one place in this world? I said they used the history of egyptian gods, (which are not real IMO anyway), and the pyramids to start the story and that many cool sounding names were used for said story. Make it broader and say they used our EARTHLING'S history and so since Egypt, China, Greek, Hebrew and so on, are all apart of that, you argument falls apart. Furthermore, the story is about travelling through other planets and so quite fitting. It is Science Fiction and many many actual scientists love the show. It is the second largest franchise of Scifi there is and a brand new movie is being made soon. If you can't have an open mind, then you it will be your loss, so if you don't, then don't. You love to piss in other people's wheaties but that just makes you the jerk pissing on everyone's cereal and not right. |
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 11:58:12 GMT
(and what's " The one who've seen everything"? sounds like it's probably up my alley based on this conversation, but googling it returned zilch) Sorry. The correct name is Of the one who've seen everything. By the way, Lemegeton is even deeper of an insult to me than the shallow interpretation of ancient myths.You do know what a myth is right? Viva la difference and on that note, I am done with this now extremely huge off the rails OT swerve. |
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 2, 2015 12:32:22 GMT
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Post by nikink on Apr 2, 2015 12:34:28 GMT
Different times, different audience, different stories, different mediums, different goals.
Retelling the exact same stories in the exact same way for thousands of years would be boring as hell. And I LOVE the ancient myths. Saying no modern stories can riff off them is artificially limiting how those stories are allowed to influence culture. If they can't be used as inspiration for new tales, what real purpose do they have? They would have metaphorically died on the tree as dead end words, and never become highly regarded enough for people to value them, or have influence enough to become myth.
And that's not even getting into myths from ancient times riffing off each other. Goodbye bible myths - how dare the ancient Jews take mesopotamian myths as (blatant) inspiration for their own retellings!
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 2, 2015 12:38:07 GMT
Different times, different audience, different stories, different mediums, different goals. Retelling the exact same stories in the exact same way for thousands of years would be boring as hell. And I LOVE the ancient myths. Saying no modern stories can riff off them is artificially limiting how those stories are allowed to influence culture. If they can't be used as inspiration for new tales, what real purpose do they have? They would have metaphorically died on the tree as dead end words, and never become highly regarded enough for people to value them, or have influence enough to become myth. And that's not even getting into myths from ancient times riffing off each other. Goodbye bible myths - how dare the ancient Jews take mesopotamian myths as (blatant) inspiration for their own retellings! Inspiration would be entirely different - it would be something like The Lion King. We're talking vandalistic exploitation of authority and popularity (as common knowledge), not inspiration. BTW, monotheism itself is a big betrayal against humanity and bible myths are not retellings, they are deliberate rewrite for purposes of political propaganda, so they both are a perfect example of thing I'm against and a very bad example for your point. |
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 12:54:02 GMT
To get back on topic, I will say that things like this below are a perfect example of why threads can get locked. Bias and religious attacks. Let just state that this is morsealworth personal belief's and in no way reflects anyone else's on the forum unless otherwise specifically stated by them. BTW, monotheism itself is a big betrayal against humanity and bible myths are not retellings, they are deliberate rewrite for purposes of political propaganda, so they both are a perfect example of thing I'm against and a very bad example for your point.I will be moving this discussion to it's own thread. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 2, 2015 13:39:16 GMT
To get back on topic, I will say that things like this below are a perfect example of why threads can get locked. Bias and religious attacks. Let just state that this is morsealworth personal belief's and in no way reflects anyone else's on the forum unless otherwise specifically stated by them. BTW, monotheism itself is a big betrayal against humanity and bible myths are not retellings, they are deliberate rewrite for purposes of political propaganda, so they both are a perfect example of thing I'm against and a very bad example for your point.I will be moving this discussion to it's own thread. First bit of Modding you've had to do since I've been a member  I love stories based on myths, Supernatural anyone  not one for big philosophical debates, just enjoy entertainment and it makes for great source material, to be honest if I hadn't watched these programmes I wouldn't of then gone out of my way to look up more information to find out what they are based on. |
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 2, 2015 13:49:15 GMT
Religious attacks? It substitutes a religion, it it's not a religion itself. You would understand that if you actually bothered to look into it. The one and only reason it exists is the fact that ancient Mesopotamia's city-states were ruled by high priests of Ba'als and one religious organisation tried to unite the land into one state by exploiting the system with an artificial cult.
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 15:29:44 GMT
Religious attacks? It substitutes a religion, it it's not a religion itself. You would understand that if you actually bothered to look into it. The one and only reason it exists is the fact that ancient Mesopotamia's city-states were ruled by high priests of Ba'als and one religious organisation tried to unite the land into one state by exploiting the system with an artificial cult. That is a matter of your opinion. People with faith based in religion can take that as an attack on their beliefs. If the belief is based on the bible it is called blasphemy as the religion states that the bible is the word of god. and yes, it is an attack on that religion. It is no different than debating the merits of cows being sacred, or hats on heads having meaning, or worshiping frozen peas for that matter. Science theories and possible historical inferences can contradict religious beliefs but by calling other beliefs false due to those contradictions it is an attack to that religion. Believe what you want but the globe has been in wars for centuries over who's beliefs are right and whose are wrong, yours is no different, you choose not to have a god, others choose to worship pigs, or pink windmills or whatever. I don't believe personally in cows being sacred or pink windmills but I would not piss over others faith since they differ from mine. You would, and that is why I cannot have a religious debate with you, nor do I want to. Everything anyone says is based in opinion, and faith of what they believe and it should be stated as such. I wish to make that point very clear. What you post is not a fact, nor a representation of others unless they otherwise state so. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Apr 2, 2015 16:53:17 GMT
Thor was a scrawny grey alien that talked with a soft monotone like some kind of psychology counselor. Where's his hammer? But I enjoyed the stories despite the inconsistencies and creative licences taken with existing mythos.
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 17:14:36 GMT
Thor was a scrawny grey alien that talked with a soft monotone like some kind of psychology counselor. Where's his hammer? But I enjoyed the stories despite the inconsistencies and creative licences taken with existing mythos. He, he, he.......indeed.(pun intended for SG fans) He did wield a high power ironically on the show in intellect and scientific technologies. Ones so high above ours, his people could squish us like bugs. |
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 17:26:44 GMT
To get back on topic, I will say that things like this below are a perfect example of why threads can get locked. Bias and religious attacks. Let just state that this is morsealworth personal belief's and in no way reflects anyone else's on the forum unless otherwise specifically stated by them. BTW, monotheism itself is a big betrayal against humanity and bible myths are not retellings, they are deliberate rewrite for purposes of political propaganda, so they both are a perfect example of thing I'm against and a very bad example for your point.I will be moving this discussion to it's own thread. First bit of Modding you've had to do since I've been a member I love stories based on myths, Supernatural anyone not one for big philosophical debates, just enjoy entertainment and it makes for great source material, to be honest if I hadn't watched these programmes I wouldn't of then gone out of my way to look up more information to find out what they are based on. I find that 99.99% it is not needed. We are just here for that .01%.  OMG, Did you mean SPN the TV show with the amazing Winchester brothers? I love that show, and yes they pull from all walks of life and lore for some of their storylines. I think that is one reason why they are still going strong at Season 10 and probably looking at more to come. They are even not afraid to make jokes about their own cult appeal having shows with people doing LARP of Sam and Dean. |
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 2, 2015 18:43:43 GMT
Believe what you want but the globe has been in wars for centuries over who's beliefs are right and whose are wrong, yours is no different, you choose not to have a god, others choose to worship pigs, or pink windmills or whatever. Why, there is a difference. Real religions like Ainu's Shinto (before Chinese invasion with their Way of Celestial Masters, for which real taoists could punch you in the face) or Egyptian pre-Horus (caused by the political overthrow and enslavement of the peasant populace) or Sumerian religion (who chased the monotheists out of the land for a fucking reason) are real religions because they are formed naturally like folk lore. The artificial totalitarian sects like Ahurayasna, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Scientology, on the other hand, are made with malicious purpose from the very beginning. They make people into slaves of that pseudoreligion and they are false in the sense the were created as literature fiction (often using nègres littéraires) yet distributed as truth worth killing for. Which makes it also a scam, largest possible one. And people being brainwashed doesn't make them right, it makes them victims of the sects. They may be offended, but my point still stands as their reaction confirms the harm on the indoctrined people since they just get angry unable to retort. |
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Post by Qetesh on Apr 2, 2015 18:54:28 GMT
Believe what you want but the globe has been in wars for centuries over who's beliefs are right and whose are wrong, yours is no different, you choose not to have a god, others choose to worship pigs, or pink windmills or whatever. Why, there is a difference. Real religions like Ainu's Shinto (before Chinese invasion with their Way of Celestial Masters, for which real taoists could punch you in the face) or Egyptian pre-Horus (caused by the political overthrow and enslavement of the peasant populace) or Sumerian religion (who chased the monotheists out of the land for a fucking reason) are real religions because they are formed naturally like folk lore. The artificial totalitarian sects like Ahurayasna, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Scientology, on the other hand, are made with malicious purpose from the very beginning. They make people into slaves of that pseudoreligion and they are false in the sense the were created as literature fiction (often using nègres littéraires) yet distributed as truth worth killing for. Which makes it also a scam, largest possible one. And people being brainwashed doesn't make them right, it makes them victims of the sects. They may be offended, but my point still stands as their reaction confirms the harm on the indoctrined people since they just get angry unable to retort. Look MS, I am going to say this one more time. I do not want to have a religious debate with you. I am a christian myself, I believe in God, and I believe in the bible. I am far from a devout person, but I still have my faith. I will leave it at this. You believe as you want and I will as I want. I don't shove my beliefs down anyone's throat so don't shove your lack of it down mine. Don't call me brainwashed or stupid on any other insults. If you have a problem and wish to rant more, have fun. Anyone who wants to trash my beliefs can kindly go F@ck themselves if they cannot be tolerant enough of others having beliefs different from their own, and I feel sorry for them if so. Peace. |
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 2, 2015 19:32:18 GMT
I don't call you stupid. Indoctrinated? Yes. Victim of the environment? Yes. Blinker on your eyes you can't even notice? Right. But not stupid. Also, your self-control is admirable.
And this is not about beliefs and tolerance (it never was since around 500 B.C.), it's about a large-scale crime against humanity left unchecked because of numbers alone.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 2, 2015 20:52:28 GMT
Thor was a scrawny grey alien that talked with a soft monotone like some kind of psychology counselor. Where's his hammer? But I enjoyed the stories despite the inconsistencies and creative licences taken with existing mythos. There actually is a hammer. It's in 2 episodes. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 22:56:59 GMT
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not one for big philosophical debates, just enjoy entertainment and it makes for great source material, to be honest if I hadn't watched these programmes I wouldn't of then gone out of my way to look up more information to find out what they are based on.
