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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 8:24:41 GMT
As part of my cataloging of this game, I would like to know what, if any, community feedback ever had any input into the game's development. This is an important part of evaluating how well a developer participated in the Early Access program (along with a core part of the Kickstarter pitch).
One small caveat: Adjusting/bypassing timers and tools made for these purposes do not count.
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Post by greay on May 19, 2015 8:41:13 GMT
Here's a list of every change they've made in response to community feedback I know of: - got rid of all the clicking needed to collect belief by changing it to click + drag
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Post by totallytim on May 19, 2015 8:43:08 GMT
As far as I know only minor technical stuff that wasn't very hard to implement which probably would be included in to the game sooner or later... like camera rotation for example.
I think there's even a post from a CM on the Steam forums where he "bragged" how "much they listened", when a similar question was asked.
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 19, 2015 8:49:53 GMT
This is difficult to quantify. Over the last three years, and particularly early on, 22Cans received LOADS of feedback from hundreds of different people, so inevitably a lot of it was contradictory and inconsistent. You could point to any element of the game and 22Cans would be able to find some old email or forum post where somebody said they wanted it.
I remember there was a fairly epic thread on the Steam forums where someone from 22Cans condescended to ask for the community's opinion on how trees should operate in Godus. The two most prevalent pieces of feedback were: trees should grow naturally, and followers should chop down trees. Neither of these things happened. There was also a bunch of other stuff about trees providing bonuses to settlements, but I think they already did that (or it was at least alredy in the pipeline). There was a level of incredulity that of all things we were being asked about TREES, and also that 22Cans had gone into this project without some existing notion of how trees work.
A few things that have been improved, presumably in response to user feedback: - Sculpting is now a bit smoother than it was in 1.3 - Belief collection is less onerous (you can click and swipe instead of click-click-clicking, as Greay said) - Building on higher levels gives you more belief (I think) reducing the temptation to flatten everything (though this was more severely curtailed by the extortionate belief cost of sculpting and the need to unlock higher tiers, which was requested by nobody)
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 19, 2015 9:07:29 GMT
I think the only thing that may have somewhat been the result of user feedback might be the world editor and possibly Raspofabs' secret project.
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Post by hardly on May 19, 2015 9:14:25 GMT
There have been changes but what has been done has been done begrudgingly.
What was amusing was what was taken away e.g. The ability to dig, wolves, ethnicities, the giant head, etc. counter to feedback they increased timers from 2.0 and they made it much harder to sculpt. When we complained about finding cards on chests they gave us stickers. Before stickers were even implemented we said no to stickers but they foisted them on us anyway.
You could argue the Astari were implemented in response to feedback since we wanted a challenge and a threat. The problem is peter himself said they dropped them in 2 weeks before a major release and you can tell. I think peter himself claimed to have had a epiphany but we had been banging on about this stuff for months. Ultimately the Astari were an epic fail.
The community managers (George and Matthew) always said they were dutifully summarising our feedback and sharing it with the team. As is the case today they couldn't/wouldn't tell us much about the development so I and other people asked to see the reports they were giving peter from the forums. Obviously this would have taken no work since they were already prepared but they never acknowledged that suggestion that I recall. Like now the CMs picked and chose what questions they responded too unless you made a lot of noise in which case you got some attention. It's no wonder we are badly behaved with that kind of conditioning. Anyway I have no idea what the reports that had our feedback in them looked like, how they were used or whether peter read them or filed them in the trash. Maybe George or Matthew would like to enlighten us?
I hope this doesn't come off as bitchy. I'm trying to explain history not give these guys a hard time. What I imagine happened is George in particular worked really quite hard to collate feedback only to find it couldn't be reconciled with peters vision. Much like Fabs and peter, the community and peter were going in very different directions. I miss George, there were things about his reign I objected too, but in hindsight I can see he tried really hard to be a good community manager, it's just a shame peter wasn't interested in mending that relationship.
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Post by mindless on May 19, 2015 11:21:32 GMT
This is difficult to quantify. Over the last three years, and particularly early on, 22Cans received LOADS of feedback from hundreds of different people... Its been made even harder to quantify with their lets delete all the posts of permabanned users. Meaning both my and mandrakes feedback & suggestions now no longer even exist.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 19, 2015 11:32:22 GMT
This is difficult to quantify. Over the last three years, and particularly early on, 22Cans received LOADS of feedback from hundreds of different people... Its been made even harder to quantify with their lets delete all the posts of permabanned users. Meaning both my and mandrakes feedback & suggestions now no longer even exist. Let's not drag that particular topic into every conversation please.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 11:56:30 GMT
Had community feedback input into the game? I would say yes. Were the changes like the community wanted/wished? I would say no.
Look at the belief collecting. Community wished an automatic belief collection (we had tons of great ideas for great collecting systems) - they first didn't change anything at all, after weeks of complaints they changed it in a way it suited their mobile orientation and was a bit less annoying. Same with other things (sculpting, timers, ...).
Then there were changes like the total rework of the whole game that took half a year. Nobody wanted it. It changed nothing for us. But they claimed it was because of the community. I think they had problems with their code on mobile and had to rework it because of that.
I would say without community they would have made their mobile f2p game without remorse. So it looks like the community had some kind of influence on the changes but they never changed anything like the community wanted. It was more like: "Ok, if we change the colour of the abode roof we can claim we changed how housing works".
So what we ended up now is not much of an improvement to their design vision.
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Post by mindless on May 19, 2015 12:12:34 GMT
Let's not drag that particular topic into every conversation please. Fair enough. While my outrage is still burning hot. I can apreciate that others may hav3 had their fill of my ramblings. Switching over into lurk mode now.
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Post by 13thGeneral on May 19, 2015 13:33:26 GMT
All this feedback is all well and good, but it needs to be corroborated with tangible evidence. I can't do it right now, because I'm at work, but it's not too hard to hunt this stuff down; a lot of it still exists, you just have to look for it. I can dig into the official Backer forum and see what I can locate - the tree thread is one I specifically took part in and know it's still there.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 19, 2015 14:39:42 GMT
Fair enough. While my outrage is still burning hot. I can apreciate that others may hav3 had their fill of my ramblings. Switching over into lurk mode now. I hope you're not offended. It's perfectly fine to have that discussion but seeing as there is already a thread on that topic counting about 10 pages I think it's best to add to that instead of on this thread.
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Post by mindless on May 19, 2015 14:45:44 GMT
Not offended, no worries
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Post by greay on May 19, 2015 21:24:22 GMT
You know what would be great? If someone @ 22cans would answer this – i.e., what changes have been made to the game based on player feedback. And what happened to all the collated feedback the CMs (supposedly) put together.
... not holding my breath, though.
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Post by hardly on May 19, 2015 22:07:51 GMT
The fact that Peter and Jack saw it as being beneath them to engage on the forums didn't help. I understand 22cans staff are discouraged from visiting forums as they may be affected by the nature of the discussion aka they might question where exactly the ship they are on is going. Where indeed. It's no wonder so many people have chosen to get off. But the development is normal, everything is fine here, nothing unusual, working on combat and then multiplayer, don't be concerned.
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Post by Spiderweb on May 20, 2015 4:35:07 GMT
Here's a list of every change they've made in response to community feedback I know of: - got rid of all the clicking needed to collect belief by changing it to click + drag
Added collection shrines? I know there was a big request for those and they appeared. Dave claimed they moved sculpting to a menu as requested, personally that is the worst move they made and I reckon it was a test to see if they can gem it for mobile. I guess. Pit of doom was added to PC when we complained about getting gems but was really an after thought. settlements revamp was apparently listening to feedback although I liked the old settlements, they should of added squishing to that not replaced it. Peter claimed the Astari was a moment of inspiration but the community had been complaining about no in game challenges for a while before they appeared. so above a obviously tenuous in telationship to your post but for want of a 22caner to clarify those are some I thought of.
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Post by bed on May 23, 2015 0:31:12 GMT
Here's a list of every change they've made in response to community feedback I know of: - got rid of all the clicking needed to collect belief by changing it to click + drag
and honestly I think that had more to do with them converting to mobile than our complaints.
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