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Post by morsealworth on Jun 6, 2015 15:52:06 GMT
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 6, 2015 18:33:06 GMT
Be mindful of your words young padawan.
I think what you mean to say is the initial development of linguistic skills is not a conscious process. The use of language obviously is a conscious process. And likewise further development of linguistic skills can be a conscious process.
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 6, 2015 19:20:15 GMT
Be mindful of your words young padawan. I think what you mean to say is the initial development of linguistic skills is not a conscious process. The use of language obviously is a conscious process. And likewise further development of linguistic skills can be a conscious process. No. The use of language is subconscious process over which consciousness has little to no control. It can start the process and end it, nothing more. More over, the process of thought itself is dependent on the language and, as it is a foundation of consciousness, you can't say that you need or can control language consciously. (Which is exactly what I argued previous time and what article I posted just above proves in full, since it has absolutely fraking nothing to do with acquiring language, it has to do with defining the thoughts with language.) By the way, this is the reason for the poetry as the art of expressing unconscious with the words existing, as well as hypnosis being possible. Since you can't do anything consciously while in trance. Also, people talk without waking up, etc. And don't call me padawan while discussing the topics you have no idea about, it's somehow offensive.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 6, 2015 19:27:12 GMT
As someone who has been talking non stop for the past 9 hours I can tell you that I very consciously chose the words I have been using and which messages I wanted to convey.
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 6, 2015 19:32:15 GMT
Nah, you can only filter the words either to let them out or not. Most of the words you produce you aren't aware of yourself. To see that you can do a simple experiment - try to stop your inner dialogue (notice it's a dialogue, not just a monologue).
I'm telling that from the position of psychophysiology, by the way. Science supports my position in every part.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 6, 2015 20:00:09 GMT
If you're saying that the use of language is completely non conscious, I disagree.
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 6, 2015 21:00:58 GMT
It's as unconscious as walking, eating or breathing. You can affect the way you chew to a extent, you can stop breathing or do that slower, you can even try to affect the way you walk. But that doesn't mean that you actually are performing these actions consciously, that you control all the complex reflexes that define the process. It's not the process that can be performed as such, in fact, there are little to none processes that are actually conscious.
And also you can perform all aforementioned actions while being in trance, while asleep (if the reticular formation remains active for some reason, such as medication or sleeping disorders), etc.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 7, 2015 9:04:06 GMT
I agree that there are parts of using language that are subconscious, but you cannot say that Iit is entirely so. For that matter you could say that everyrhing we do is partly subconscious. I do not agree when you say language is a subconscious process because a large part of it happens very consciously. For example, I can choose to pick up a dictionary and learn a new word. Or I can choose to start learning a whole new language. Both of which involve both conscious and subconscious processes.
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 7, 2015 11:58:23 GMT
I agree that there are parts of using language that are subconscious, but you cannot say that Iit is entirely so. For that matter you could say that everyrhing we do is partly subconscious. I do not agree when you say language is a subconscious process because a large part of it happens very consciously. For example, I can choose to pick up a dictionary and learn a new word. Or I can choose to start learning a whole new language. Both of which involve both conscious and subconscious processes. Again, you just start the process, you do not control it.
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