Godgames | Interesting thread on steam...

jpw
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Interesting thread on steam... May 10, 2014 19:56:36 GMT

Post by jpw on May 10, 2014 19:56:36 GMT

Steam

Especially this response from Denjai:

Some valid questions - its a longshot, but perhaps George could shed some light on this at some point in the future.

I think its become quite valid at this point that many of the backers and supporters are starting to wonder what is actually happening with their money and where it is going.
And specifically for those backers.

The kickstarter system is set up in such a way that when a kickstarter does NOT deliver on its promised goods within a reasonable timeframe - the backers can actually undertake some steps to get clarification.

Kickstarter Basics: Accountability
What should creators do if they're having problems completing their project?
If problems come up, creators are expected to post a project update (which is emailed to all backers) explaining the situation. Sharing the story, speed bumps and all, is crucial. Most backers support projects because they want to see something happen and they'd like to be a part of it. Creators who are honest and transparent will usually find backers to be understanding.

It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.

If the problems are severe enough that the creator can't fulfill their project, creators need to find a resolution. Steps could include offering refunds, detailing exactly how funds were used, and other actions to satisfy backers.

I think its safe to say that 22cans is having problems completing their project. Considering they're 7 months past the original kickstarter deadline and lack a significant amount of the promised features.

Lord Ba'al Supreme Deity Posts: 6,260 Pledge level: Half a Partner I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape. I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames. Steam: stonelesscutter GOG: stonelesscutter	Interesting thread on steam... May 10, 2014 20:55:03 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Lord Ba'al on May 10, 2014 20:55:03 GMT Yeah we've actually been going on for quite some time about 22Cans not delivering on their Kickstarter requirements.
	This town cannot accommodate the numerical totality of our combined mass.

jpw
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Posts: 159

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I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
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Interesting thread on steam... May 10, 2014 21:31:27 GMT

Post by jpw on May 10, 2014 21:31:27 GMT

Might it be worth organising a mass help ticket request to Kickstarter asking them to hold 22Cans accountable? Surely if every backer posts a ticket to Kickstarter something will happen? As has been said by so many I have no desire to reclaim my £80 (so glad I didn't opt in for the £100+ tiers I was tempted by) it would just be great if we could get them back on track for a PC game, not a f2p game worthy only of Facebook.

Even if they don't make the game we want, might there be a chance we could get our posters signed by humans rather than crummy prints, sooo disappointing...

Last Edit: May 10, 2014 21:32:21 GMT by jpw

Lord Ba'al Supreme Deity Posts: 6,260 Pledge level: Half a Partner I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape. I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames. Steam: stonelesscutter GOG: stonelesscutter	Interesting thread on steam... May 10, 2014 21:49:13 GMT jpw likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Lord Ba'al on May 10, 2014 21:49:13 GMT I think I'd be on board with that.
	This town cannot accommodate the numerical totality of our combined mass.

Qetesh Young God Guess! Posts: 1,655 Pledge level: Half a Partner I like: Cats and Dogs. Travel when I want and not when I have to. A lazy sunday at home with my love watching movies and playing games after a long night out with friends and family. I don't like: Being Lied to.	Interesting thread on steam... May 10, 2014 23:53:59 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Qetesh on May 10, 2014 23:53:59 GMT I would almost put money on that thread getting locked soon, but I won't put money on anything to do with Godus ever again, just for principle.

jpw
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Interesting thread on steam... May 11, 2014 4:51:45 GMT via mobile

Post by jpw on May 11, 2014 4:51:45 GMT

This is a copy of the help ticket I submitted to Kickstarter:

I wonder if you are aware of the furore surrounding the 22Cans Godus project? It won't take much research to see the extent to which this project has failed to deliver, not only on it's promises but also on its rewards. The various reviews by notable gaming websites, on Steam, on Amazon, or indeed the discussions that are taking place on the Steam, 22Cans, and unofficial Godus, forums indicate that this project has been mismanaged, and that the company has failed to honour the promises made to the backers.

I will be happy to contact you with a list of failures of 22cans, and of the negative experience this has resulted in for a first time Kickstarter backer. My help tag is not so much a request for a refund, but a question regarding any action you might be in a position to take, or indeed have already taken regarding 22Cans. It would be of great interest to the backers to know if you as an organisation are applying pressure on 22Cans to fulfil their promises, to be more transparent, and to ensure that the production of a PC game, not a mobile f2p game is the priority of the studio. You might indeed wish to make an official statement given the epic failure of this project.

Judging from the mood of the Godus community we are prepared to write off our monetary pledge, but we would like to see 22Cans be held to account.

I would be keen to be in a position to post both my help ticket question and your response on the relevant forums.

It probably could be tidied up, and details added, it might also be worth suggesting that Kickstarter send an email to all backers to gauge satistaction with the project.

Details of failures also need to be prepared as far as I see it in two areas:

1.Failed kicstarter promises.
Lack of backer involvement, prolonged periods of silence (up to 3 months), ignored backer requests to remove game mechanics which seem designed for f2p format over PC some of which were requested as early as alpha (belief collection, stickers, wheat and ore management), poor (non f2p) gameplay mechanics (sculpting is still messy 18 months after funding completed).

2. No sign of in game rewards
Familiar, unique god power, acorn, wishing well.

This is a short rough and ready list, please add, comment, then maybe start new thread called "Kickstarter appeal" when we have a better help ticket text and list?

Last Edit: May 11, 2014 16:44:48 GMT by jpw

Lord Ba'al
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Interesting thread on steam... May 11, 2014 5:36:46 GMT

Post by Lord Ba'al on May 11, 2014 5:36:46 GMT

Looks good so far. I'm very curious how the people at Kickstarter are going to respond. The list of failures is quite long. I don't have an exact oversight at the moment as I have let many things slide. I'm sure we can dig it all back up as a group. I would like to note that if we do this then I would request as you said that either 22Cans are held accountable to deliver on their promises or to refund us. Meaning I don't have to get my money back if they finally live up to the expectations, but if they don't then I do want my money back.

This town cannot accommodate the numerical totality of our combined mass.

jpw
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What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
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Not being a god in a god game
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Interesting thread on steam... May 11, 2014 5:50:54 GMT via mobile

Post by jpw on May 11, 2014 5:50:54 GMT

Just looking back over some old Kickstarter Videos, idea for separate thread, in video #1
P: "and this is the key thing about Kickstarter we are going to have a look at what people think..."
J:"there is no point doing a Kickstarter if we are not listening..."
P: "That's the whole point"

Yes Peter that is indeed the "whole point".

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Interesting thread on steam... May 12, 2014 16:02:55 GMT

Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 16:02:55 GMT

May 10, 2014 23:53:59 GMT Qetesh said:

I would almost put money on that thread getting locked soon, but I won't put money on anything to do with Godus ever again, just for principle.

why should this be locked this board doesnt belong to 22 cans

Lord Ba'al
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Interesting thread on steam... May 12, 2014 16:47:42 GMT

Post by Lord Ba'al on May 12, 2014 16:47:42 GMT

May 12, 2014 16:02:55 GMT Aron said:

May 10, 2014 23:53:59 GMT Qetesh said:

I would almost put money on that thread getting locked soon, but I won't put money on anything to do with Godus ever again, just for principle.

why should this be locked this board doesnt belong to 22 cans

She means the thread on the Steam forum.

There will be no locking of threads here unless I deem to do so. For I am Lord Ba'al.

This town cannot accommodate the numerical totality of our combined mass.

rubgish
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Interesting thread on steam... May 12, 2014 16:57:36 GMT Lord Ba'al likes this

Post by rubgish on May 12, 2014 16:57:36 GMT

May 12, 2014 16:47:42 GMT Lord Ba'al said:

May 12, 2014 16:02:55 GMT Aron said:

why should this be locked this board doesnt belong to 22 cans

She means the thread on the Steam forum.

There will be no locking of threads here unless I deem to do so. For I am Lord Ba'al.

Quick, overthrow the dictator!

jpw
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Interesting thread on steam... May 12, 2014 18:55:31 GMT

Post by jpw on May 12, 2014 18:55:31 GMT

Sadly the reply from Kickstarter was as to be expected, suggestions as to where to go next?

Your request has been updated.

If you have further questions or comments, you can add a comment by replying to this email.

Kickstarter Support (Kickstarter)

May 12 12:10

Hi there,

Here at Kickstarter HQ, we expect creators to fulfill rewards, offer refunds if they’re unable to complete their project, and communicate with backers at every step along the way. While Kickstarter is the platform for this agreement, we are not a part of it. We do not investigate a project creator’s ability to complete their project, nor do we facilitate refunds or the fulfillment of rewards. While in most cases you’ll find that rewards are delivered as promised, it’s also important to realize that some projects might not fulfill as planned.

When you back a project on Kickstarter you enter into an agreement with the project creator, as described in our Terms of Use: www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

These terms outline the responsibilities of backers and creators. This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

I hope that this helps to address your concerns, but please don’t hesitate to let us know if you have any other questions.

Best,
Megan

Small claims court in UK - is this really something we want to be talking about. I want to keep positive, but there is positive and cloud cuckoo land.

A land that seems to be accessed via Guildford. Hmm. Portals?

Last Edit: May 12, 2014 18:56:15 GMT by jpw

stuhacking
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Interesting thread on steam... May 13, 2014 11:16:20 GMT

Post by stuhacking on May 13, 2014 11:16:20 GMT

May 12, 2014 18:55:31 GMT jpw said:

Small claims court in UK - is this really something we want to be talking about. I want to keep positive, but there is positive and cloud cuckoo land.

A land that seems to be accessed via Guildford. Hmm. Portals?

Unfortunately, as long as 22Cans are in 'pre-release' period, and appear to at least be active and working on the project I think they will be able to settle any court case on the basis of this Kickstarter clause: That a project creator only needs to show that they are making an effort to deliver the goals set out by the project. As far as I can see, that's basically a get out of jail free card for as long as the project continues to run...

If there was any evidence that the project was considered 'complete' or 'released' I'd think there may be a case, but I'm not sure it's even worth it. I doubt 22Cans would even have the money to offer refunds. They could declare bankruptcy, but that wouldn't result in backers or EA customers getting any money back. As an exercise in 'creating an example' it might be fun to pursue... but it would be costly to the prosecutors as well, no?

Probably best to write the whole project off as a failure, forget about it, move on and remember to avoid 22Cans in future.

julians
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Interesting thread on steam... May 13, 2014 11:59:59 GMT

Post by julians on May 13, 2014 11:59:59 GMT

Well you need to remember that getting your money back is just one way you can try to make sure that bad behavior is not repeated.
Bad reviews and not recommending Godus or 22Cans and Peter in particular to people can be an effective way for other companies to take notice too.
I for one will not get involved in any other KS Peter makes, or buy any game that he's involved in. He has joined exclusive until now group of EA, companies that I ban from my wallet. The market is so big and there are so many good games that you can easily spend your life playing games not made by these two parties.

jpw
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Posts: 159

Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
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Not being a god in a god game
Chests

Interesting thread on steam... May 13, 2014 17:41:36 GMT

Post by jpw on May 13, 2014 17:41:36 GMT

May 13, 2014 11:59:59 GMT julians said:

Well you need to remember that getting your money back is just one way you can try to make sure that bad behavior is not repeated.

To be honest it is not the money that bugs me, it's more the promise of what might have been, memories of Populus and Black and White games, and the hope of something just as engrossing. Sadly it is, now every so clearly, not to be.

banned
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Interesting thread on steam... May 14, 2014 0:16:06 GMT

Post by banned on May 14, 2014 0:16:06 GMT

I think folks screaming "refund" and "court" are barking up the wrong tree.
Nothing significant to be gained.
However making sure that the next MBA wanting to chase those microtransactin' dollars using other peoples money does not think "a Kickstarter is a great plan" seems perfect.

Malfeasance thinks you're morally suspect.

Qetesh
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Interesting thread on steam... May 14, 2014 1:12:32 GMT

Post by Qetesh on May 14, 2014 1:12:32 GMT

I think we mostly understand we got dropped a roofie and ripped clean of our virgin treasures, but please stop telling you just gave me a kiss goodnight on the cheek. When you wake up the next day and fell like you were rode hard and put away wet, no matter what the guy says, you were. He can bring you all the sweetest coffee and pastries in the world but the deed was still done.

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Interesting thread on steam... May 14, 2014 1:44:02 GMT

Post by splitterwind on May 14, 2014 1:44:02 GMT

uhh.... using theft and fraud wasn't extreme enough for an analogy, I guess?

He can bring you all the sweetest coffee and pastries in the world but the deed was still done.

meh, the best we get is a gofer that hands us withered flowers in the next morning... Also, he informs us that lube costs extra and is sold in 10ml packages.

Last Edit: May 14, 2014 1:44:49 GMT by splitterwind

22cans is selling antidotes to their own poison (slow progression, repetitive game mechanics, progression-walls) to idiots. At the same time they pretend that we WANTED that antidote and it was solely based on our feedback (instead of understanding that we don't want poisoned software in the first place).
The PC sprints will probably be nothing more than a collection of antidotes that can be sold at good prices to mobile gamers. At least we get small doses of antidotes for free. WOHOO

World Stroking Simulator 2014™ Master Oh hey, Godus, that was a thing. Yeah. shakes head Posts: 143 Pledge level: Peter Molyneux's retirement fund I like: Indy games. Also decent studio games. I don't like: Guess...	Interesting thread on steam... May 14, 2014 10:39:49 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by World Stroking Simulator 2014™ on May 14, 2014 10:39:49 GMT Peter Molyneux I just got the BEST IDEA for a new game from godus.boards.net!!!!
	Analytics people have looked at Godus and have said it’s insane to do monetisation this way. We’ve replaced tapping with stroking and it’s delicious. Godus is all about touching your world, stroking your world. We looked at the porn industry for inspiration. Genitalia everywhere. All pink wobbly bits. We are going to be so damn rich.

jpw
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Posts: 159

Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
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Not being a god in a god game
Chests

Interesting thread on steam... May 15, 2014 18:35:05 GMT

Post by jpw on May 15, 2014 18:35:05 GMT

May 14, 2014 1:12:32 GMT Qetesh said:

I think we mostly understand we got dropped a roofie and ripped clean of our virgin treasures, but please stop telling you just gave me a kiss goodnight on the cheek. When you wake up the next day and fell like you were rode hard and put away wet, no matter what the guy says, you were. He can bring you all the sweetest coffee and pastries in the world but the deed was still done.

I feel... violated.... Yuck!

Thanks for that.

Interesting thread on steam...

Post by jpw on May 10, 2014 19:56:36 GMT

Post by Lord Ba'al on May 10, 2014 20:55:03 GMT

Post by jpw on May 10, 2014 21:31:27 GMT

Post by Lord Ba'al on May 10, 2014 21:49:13 GMT

Post by Qetesh on May 10, 2014 23:53:59 GMT

Post by jpw on May 11, 2014 4:51:45 GMT

Post by Lord Ba'al on May 11, 2014 5:36:46 GMT

Post by jpw on May 11, 2014 5:50:54 GMT

Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 16:02:55 GMT

Post by Lord Ba'al on May 12, 2014 16:47:42 GMT

Post by rubgish on May 12, 2014 16:57:36 GMT

Post by jpw on May 12, 2014 18:55:31 GMT

Post by stuhacking on May 13, 2014 11:16:20 GMT

Post by julians on May 13, 2014 11:59:59 GMT

Post by jpw on May 13, 2014 17:41:36 GMT

Post by banned on May 14, 2014 0:16:06 GMT

Post by Qetesh on May 14, 2014 1:12:32 GMT

Post by splitterwind on May 14, 2014 1:44:02 GMT

Post by World Stroking Simulator 2014™ on May 14, 2014 10:39:49 GMT

Post by jpw on May 15, 2014 18:35:05 GMT

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