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Post by colin22cans on Jul 28, 2015 13:50:16 GMT
Seriously considering hiring Sundance as our Internal Development Planner. That isn't the plan.  We're currently working on Combat, an early build will be available on our Steam Opt-In testing channel when we feel that it is ready (It won't be too long now). This won't be a complete build - It will be buggy, it might be a little broken, there will be a way of offering feedback that will be looked at, listened to and assessed - I'll be one of the people in charge of collecting feedback and working with the production team to make sure that the important things that are brought up are worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.. Community feedback will be incredibly important to the release of our combat. Opt-In will be the first chance to offer all kinds of in-game feedback on the combat. That's the current plan and that's all we're talking about at this moment.  Getroffene Hunde bellen.
Are you sure? I heard a lot of things from a lot of people at 22cans - most of them said things that never came true. Maybe it's because nobody told you what the plan really is? On the contrary, i (and many other) said a lot of things since alpha and many of them happend. Oh, that's not because i am such a smart person, it's more because those things are very obvious.
I really heard a lot about feedback and things that should be fixed, tweaked etc.. and every now and then we hear of someone that he and 22cans fucked up and then we hear the same things again.
Maybe yes, it would be a great idea to give me the job of an internal development planner, could it get worse? I don't think so. But on the other hand i would be really happy if you give me my money back then i wouldn't have to tell you what you are doing - that's something i would prefer.
But anyway, if you don't want me to guess about your plans then you are welcome to show me how you want to fix this mess. And no, i don't want to hear about the combat - that's not fixing the game, that's to duct tape something together which will collapse a few days after release.
I'm awaiting to hear from your (22cans) plan. That's what i asked for since the start of this project but 22cans is avoiding to answer this question. It's not that we didn't ask. In the beginning it was because of mobile and f2p which is (i heard from some 22cans employee) not in the game ... oh wonder ... a few weeks later it was in the game. So if there is a plan now, why don't you talk about it? I see to possible answers 1. there is no plan 2. there is one that we don't want to hear. 2. is the one i mentioned above.
So come on and tell me what the game will be like in the vision of you (especially 22cans) and the designers? Then we can talk about how you want to reach those goals. I am here? For years now. Waiting to hear about that?
Not avoiding the question, I actually answered it. You can find the current plan here - godus.boards.net/post/22456 We're not discussing future plans at this time. Thanks. |
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 28, 2015 14:04:06 GMT
There is already feedback for what your planning in combat, are you listening to what is said on steam colin22cans? People aren't that happy that combat is a seperate mode a la mini games (on steam forums as well as here) We've been told its due to screen space for controls? I'm sorry but I can't believe you need a new mode because of control layout, surely that is where you could invent something to handle it. if you are truly splitting it into game modes, which would be slightly better (I think) can you share that with us. I'd like to know if combat is available to the lua script but nobody ever got back to that question I asked for "konrads corner". Since you are answering questions colin22cans, can you tell me if combat commands\objects etc are going to be exposed so we can use this stuff in LUA and the world editor? Passed that on to Konrad. K - It's something we'll be looking into but we have nothing to confirm on that at the moment. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 14:23:58 GMT
Getroffene Hunde bellen.
Are you sure? I heard a lot of things from a lot of people at 22cans - most of them said things that never came true. Maybe it's because nobody told you what the plan really is? On the contrary, i (and many other) said a lot of things since alpha and many of them happend. Oh, that's not because i am such a smart person, it's more because those things are very obvious.
I really heard a lot about feedback and things that should be fixed, tweaked etc.. and every now and then we hear of someone that he and 22cans fucked up and then we hear the same things again.
Maybe yes, it would be a great idea to give me the job of an internal development planner, could it get worse? I don't think so. But on the other hand i would be really happy if you give me my money back then i wouldn't have to tell you what you are doing - that's something i would prefer.
But anyway, if you don't want me to guess about your plans then you are welcome to show me how you want to fix this mess. And no, i don't want to hear about the combat - that's not fixing the game, that's to duct tape something together which will collapse a few days after release.
I'm awaiting to hear from your (22cans) plan. That's what i asked for since the start of this project but 22cans is avoiding to answer this question. It's not that we didn't ask. In the beginning it was because of mobile and f2p which is (i heard from some 22cans employee) not in the game ... oh wonder ... a few weeks later it was in the game. So if there is a plan now, why don't you talk about it? I see to possible answers 1. there is no plan 2. there is one that we don't want to hear. 2. is the one i mentioned above.
So come on and tell me what the game will be like in the vision of you (especially 22cans) and the designers? Then we can talk about how you want to reach those goals. I am here? For years now. Waiting to hear about that?
Not avoiding the question, I actually answered it. You can find the current plan here - godus.boards.net/post/22456 We're not discussing future plans at this time. Thanks. Yes excactly - as you did in the past and you will in the future, you are not discussing future plans at any time. In all those years we had nobody who could tell us what godus will be. One person told us stories about what the game will be, but it turned out that he had no plan, too and he only said everything he thought he has to say to get some money from us. (which is a sad because he was the lead designer). Some assume he is a pathologic lier.
So tell me why should anybody take anything that 22cans tells us for true? You even can't talk about the future because every now and then someone from 22cans tell's accidentally the truth which leads to a major uproar.
It's so obvious that you are not working on fixing the game in a way the community wants.
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 28, 2015 14:45:43 GMT
Not avoiding the question, I actually answered it. You can find the current plan here - godus.boards.net/post/22456 We're not discussing future plans at this time. Thanks. Yes excactly - as you did in the past and you will in the future, you are not discussing future plans at any time. In all those years we had nobody who could tell us what godus will be. One person told us stories about what the game will be, but it turned out that he had no plan, too and he only said everything he thought he has to say to get some money from us. (which is a sad because he was the lead designer). Some assume he is a pathologic lier.
So tell me why should anybody take anything that 22cans tells us for true? You even can't talk about the future because every now and then someone from 22cans tell's accidentally the truth which leads to a major uproar.
It's so obvious that you are not working on fixing the game in a way the community wants.
We're not discussing future plans at this time. We'll talk about them when we're ready to. Thanks |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 15:07:20 GMT
Yes excactly - as you did in the past and you will in the future, you are not discussing future plans at any time. In all those years we had nobody who could tell us what godus will be. One person told us stories about what the game will be, but it turned out that he had no plan, too and he only said everything he thought he has to say to get some money from us. (which is a sad because he was the lead designer). Some assume he is a pathologic lier.
So tell me why should anybody take anything that 22cans tells us for true? You even can't talk about the future because every now and then someone from 22cans tell's accidentally the truth which leads to a major uproar.
It's so obvious that you are not working on fixing the game in a way the community wants.
We're not discussing future plans at this time. We'll talk about them when we're ready to. Thanks I am sorry. That's not a future plan. It's the vision what the game should be. So you are saying that there is no such vision, which is excactly what we see now. You are doing combat and it is obvious that you don't know how to put it in the final game. At the end we will end up with a meaningless homeworld, a lifeless weyworld (or what it's called) and 5 minigames that don't fit the rest of the game but could be nice as mobile spinoff.
This "we'll talk about them when we're ready to" is excactly the reason why we are all in this situation now. It began with Peter not telling us about his mobile focus.
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 28, 2015 15:14:43 GMT
We're not discussing future plans at this time. We'll talk about them when we're ready to. Thanks I am sorry. That's not a future plan. It's the vision what the game should be. So you are saying that there is no such vision, which is excactly what we see now. You are doing combat and it is obvious that you don't know how to put it in the final game. At the end we will end up with a meaningless homeworld, a lifeless weyworld (or what it's called) and 5 minigames that don't fit the rest of the game but could be nice as mobile spinoff.
This "we'll talk about them when we're ready to" is excactly the reason why we are all in this situation now. It began with Peter not telling us about his mobile focus.
That is what you're saying. Please do not attribute words to me that I did not say. What I'm saying and have said is that we're not discussing future plans at this time. Nothing more than that. Our current plan can be found here - godus.boards.net/post/22456This is the final post on the matter. |
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Post by heggers on Jul 28, 2015 15:34:05 GMT
Yes excactly - as you did in the past and you will in the future, you are not discussing future plans at any time. In all those years we had nobody who could tell us what godus will be. One person told us stories about what the game will be, but it turned out that he had no plan, too and he only said everything he thought he has to say to get some money from us. (which is a sad because he was the lead designer). Some assume he is a pathologic lier.
So tell me why should anybody take anything that 22cans tells us for true? You even can't talk about the future because every now and then someone from 22cans tell's accidentally the truth which leads to a major uproar.
It's so obvious that you are not working on fixing the game in a way the community wants.
We're not discussing future plans at this time. We'll talk about them when we're ready to. Thanks This reminds me of a time a politician came to where I work. The journalists kept asking him questions but because they weren't the questions he wanted to answer he gave almost exactly the same response... It was like a scene from a Greek tragedy as the questions didn't go away |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 15:42:10 GMT
I am sorry. That's not a future plan. It's the vision what the game should be. So you are saying that there is no such vision, which is excactly what we see now. You are doing combat and it is obvious that you don't know how to put it in the final game. At the end we will end up with a meaningless homeworld, a lifeless weyworld (or what it's called) and 5 minigames that don't fit the rest of the game but could be nice as mobile spinoff.
This "we'll talk about them when we're ready to" is excactly the reason why we are all in this situation now. It began with Peter not telling us about his mobile focus.
That is what you're saying. Please do not attribute words to me that I did not say. What I'm saying and have said is that we're not discussing future plans at this time. Nothing more than that. Our current plan can be found here - godus.boards.net/post/22456This is the final post on the matter. If you and 22cans would say anything substantial i wouldn't have to guess and attribute words to you that you did not say.
So this is your plan "We're currently working on Combat, an early build will be available on our Steam Opt-In testing channel when we feel that it is ready (It won't be too long now). This won't be a complete build - It will be buggy, it might be a little broken, there will be a way of offering feedback that will be looked at, listened to and assessed - I'll be one of the people in charge of collecting feedback and working with the production team to make sure that the important things that are brought up are worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.. Community feedback will be incredibly important to the release of our combat.
Opt-In will be the first chance to offer all kinds of in-game feedback on the combat. That's the current plan and that's all we're talking about at this moment. "
Have you ever build a house and your architect came to you and said:"We're currently working on the roof, an early build will be available on our testing channel when we feel that it is ready (It won't be too long now). This won't be a complete roof - It will be buggy, it might be a little broken, there will be a way of offering feedback that will be looked at, listened to and assessed - I'll be one of the people in charge of collecting feedback and working with the production team to make sure that the important things that are brought up are worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.. Your feedback will be incredibly important to the release of our roof.
Opt-In will be the first chance to offer all kinds of in-house Feedback on the roof. That's the current plan and that's all we're talking about at this moment. "
And that's what he said while you and he stand in front of a big hole in the ground after you asked him (after three years of building) about what the house will look like when it's done (and what his plan is - what in fact you asked him hundred times before and he never gave you an answer).
Yes, you are right it ... doesn't need any more words. |
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 28, 2015 15:49:08 GMT
Not to mention that people are sick of being treated as beta testers without getting anything in return. I'll see what I can do on that front. Leave it with me You're not thinking about offering to allow us to test the alpha for The Trail a reward for betatesting godus are you? Or are you thinking gems?  |
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 28, 2015 15:59:26 GMT
I'll see what I can do on that front. Leave it with me You're not thinking about offering to allow us to test the alpha for The Trail a reward for betatesting godus are you? Or are you thinking gems? Hmmm. |
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Post by Deth on Jul 28, 2015 16:07:21 GMT
You're not thinking about offering to allow us to test the alpha for The Trail a reward for betatesting godus are you? Or are you thinking gems? KILL IT!!!! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 16:11:21 GMT
I am sorry. That's not a future plan. It's the vision what the game should be. So you are saying that there is no such vision, which is excactly what we see now. You are doing combat and it is obvious that you don't know how to put it in the final game. At the end we will end up with a meaningless homeworld, a lifeless weyworld (or what it's called) and 5 minigames that don't fit the rest of the game but could be nice as mobile spinoff.
This "we'll talk about them when we're ready to" is excactly the reason why we are all in this situation now. It began with Peter not telling us about his mobile focus.
That is what you're saying. Please do not attribute words to me that I did not say. What I'm saying and have said is that we're not discussing future plans at this time. Nothing more than that. Our current plan can be found here - godus.boards.net/post/22456This is the final post on the matter. , can you at least answer his earlier point about getting his money back? Why, specifically, won't 22Cans be granting refunds to Kickstarter and Early Access users who were mislead as to the nature of the game? I'm asking why 22Cans won't do it, not about Steam's refund policy.That is what you're saying. Please do not attribute words to me that I did not say. What I'm saying and have said is that we're not discussing future plans at this time. Nothing more than that. Our current plan can be found here - godus.boards.net/post/22456This is the final post on the matter. If you and 22cans would say anything substantial i wouldn't have to guess and attribute words to you that you did not say.
So this is your plan "We're currently working on Combat, an early build will be available on our Steam Opt-In testing channel when we feel that it is ready (It won't be too long now). This won't be a complete build - It will be buggy, it might be a little broken, there will be a way of offering feedback that will be looked at, listened to and assessed - I'll be one of the people in charge of collecting feedback and working with the production team to make sure that the important things that are brought up are worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.. Community feedback will be incredibly important to the release of our combat.
Opt-In will be the first chance to offer all kinds of in-game feedback on the combat. That's the current plan and that's all we're talking about at this moment. "
Have you ever build a house and your architect came to you and said:"We're currently working on the roof, an early build will be available on our testing channel when we feel that it is ready (It won't be too long now). This won't be a complete roof - It will be buggy, it might be a little broken, there will be a way of offering feedback that will be looked at, listened to and assessed - I'll be one of the people in charge of collecting feedback and working with the production team to make sure that the important things that are brought up are worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.. Your feedback will be incredibly important to the release of our roof.
Opt-In will be the first chance to offer all kinds of in-house Feedback on the roof. That's the current plan and that's all we're talking about at this moment. "
And that's what he said while you and he stand in front of a big hole in the ground after you asked him (after three years of building) about what the house will look like when it's done (and what his plan is - what in fact you asked him hundred times before and he never gave you an answer).
Yes, you are right it ... doesn't need any more words. It just occurred to me that in one of his last interviews, Peter was saying, almost word for word, the same thing as Simon did in his recent one about just getting to work and finishing the game and how they're working hard to get the game done, only he was referring to all the Kickstarter features instead of just Combat. 22Cans clearly has a plan. The fact that they're reluctant to reveal their "future" plans to their beta-testers seems to hint towards the "commercial realities" that were mentioned in the same interview above. |
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Post by totallytim on Jul 28, 2015 16:30:00 GMT
"We're currently working on _______, an early build will be available on our Steam Opt-In testing channel when we feel that it is ready (It won't be too long now). This won't be a complete build - It will be buggy, it might be a little broken, there will be a way of offering feedback that will be looked at, listened to and assessed - _______ will be one of the people in charge of collecting feedback and working with the production team to make sure that the important things that are brought up are worked on, fixed, tweaked, etc.. Community feedback will be incredibly important to the release of our combat."
I could have sworn I saw this template for responding to alpha and beta testers somewhere before...
Seriously though, something that's pretty much a given for any early access game (specially a kickstarted one) is part of the "plan", that's being revealed to the community? Something that could easily be interpreted as PR talk for: "we'll do our minimum to satisfy SEA requirements, but don't expect any changes past balance and bug fixes". [it was a really vague and diplomatic paragraph, so you can't really blame me for "putting things out of context", event though I have a feeling I'm spot on]
Ok, so you won't talk more about combat, but what about the future after combat? What's your plan about integrating combat (the closed black box, that can't be talked about) in the game? Where does it all fit and how are other "black boxes" interconnected?
I'm basically asking what we've been asking since 2013. What kind of game did we buy on kickstarter/SEA?
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Post by eddiemonsta on Jul 28, 2015 17:47:35 GMT
We're not discussing future plans at this time. We'll talk about them when we're ready to. Thanks Ok colin22cans, seeing as you are being quite clear regarding your stance towards discussing future plans, i'd like to ask some questions directly relating to your post in the quote above. 1. To my mind, the post implies that 22cans does have a plan for Godus, beyond Combat. Is this the case? 2. If this is the case, and you are eventually ready to discuss it/them, will the PC community get the opportunity to have input (design or otherwise) into the direction you take next, before you take it? Thanks |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 17:51:25 GMT
Not avoiding the question, I actually answered it. You can find the current plan here - godus.boards.net/post/22456 We're not discussing future plans at this time. Thanks. Well then, now we have a serious problem. Rather, 22cans does. Should this be presented to Steam as how 22cans aren't participating in the Early Access program? Because if you can't tell people what is generally aimed at to be a "finished product" then 22cans are just taking the piss out of the Early Access program, and so everyone here who has a key (which are continued to be fraudulently sold under the 1.3 description in many places outside of Steam) should probably report the product for such. What the finished product should *generally* look like is a bit more of a fundamental expectation than if saves are wiped. Yes, there are problems with not all features getting in and such is to be expected, but remember...it was your own CEO who reminded folks about the Early Access program risks. I'm doing 22cans the same "courtesy". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 18:11:42 GMT
Not avoiding the question, I actually answered it. You can find the current plan here - godus.boards.net/post/22456 We're not discussing future plans at this time. Thanks. Well then, now we have a serious problem. Rather, 22cans does. Should this be presented to Steam as how 22cans aren't participating in the Early Access program? Because if you can't tell people what is generally aimed at to be a "finished product" then 22cans are just taking the piss out of the Early Access program, and so everyone here who has a key (which are continued to be fraudulently sold under the 1.3 description in many places outside of Steam) should probably report the product for such. What the finished product should *generally* look like is a bit more of a fundamental expectation than if saves are wiped. Yes, there are problems with not all features getting in and such is to be expected, but remember...it was your own CEO who reminded folks about the Early Access program risks. I'm doing 22cans the same "courtesy". and colin22cans might want to take note of the following rules for Steam Early Access, especially considering the implication of the former that they'll SpaceBase the game in the near future since "multiplayer might take years" and "we can't afford to develop Godus forever": |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 18:15:40 GMT
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 28, 2015 18:30:12 GMT
There are good points being made but the discussion appears to be slipping a little too much in EVERY direction again. Let's try to keep it a bit more focused.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 18:45:06 GMT
I think that rather than having a back-and-forth on the forums regarding future plans, it would be easier just to show us 22Cans' vision for Combat and the rest of the game via the making-of Godus documentary. Does anyone know when it'll be out?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 18:50:49 GMT
An unfortunate problem with information voids leading to natural topic drift. In this case, it's the matter of feedback and what it matters leading to the discussion of development involvement of the community leading into what people can expect the game to look like otherwise their suggestions might just ultimately be wasted time.
The root of the problem is that 22cans will not tell us. This is such a problem around other developers upon Steam that VALVe had to change their rules.
Such as, for example, the issue about refunds and how it was company policy to dodge behind Steam every time that topic was mentioned.
So if 22cans needs Steam policy to decide for them...well, there it is in the Early Access rules.
22cans now needs to provide some details about what they would - at this current time - consider to be a finished product for Godus and how they more or less plan to get there. Nothing concrete, just a general roadmap of what constitutes "100%" since they've long passed "1.0".
Otherwise...how can folks better offer feedback in context to those plans?
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