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Post by Crumpy Six on May 20, 2014 11:09:10 GMT
The Steam forum has completely kicked off over the last 24 hours with people reacting to mods locking/moving threads. I'm not going to bother participating in any of those threads (which are just going to get locked anyway) but appreciate that this board exists as a separate and less emotionally charged environment.
This interesting quote turned up from some bystander on Steam:
Can 22Cans really be called independent? From Wikipedia: Edit: hit post too soon.
22Cans prides itself in being indie. When soliciting 5-star ratings for Godus in the iOS version, it describes itself as a "small indie team". But it has a publisher who, according to GK, funded the mobile release! So this is highly misleading. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 20, 2014 11:14:46 GMT
Indeed. Which is it?
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 20, 2014 11:23:20 GMT
22cans is not owned by a publisher and therefore we are an independent studio. A publishing deal for Godus on mobile doesn't affect that. For example, Bungie have a deal with Activision for Destiny, but they are still a wholly independent studio. |
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Tau
Wannabe
Posts: 28
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Post by Tau on May 20, 2014 11:24:55 GMT
22cans is now owned by a publisher ... Nice miss-typed. ;p |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 20, 2014 11:28:01 GMT
22cans is now owned by a publisher ... Nice miss-typed. ;p I know, whoops! I've edited my original post now. |
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Post by julians on May 20, 2014 11:29:46 GMT
22Cans might not be owned by a publisher but like everything 22Cans does it's just a convenient word play.
Godus for PC is not a F2P because you had to pay for it.
Godus for mobile is an Invest 2 Play because one person may actually get a piece of the profits back.
T-shirts are signed because there is a signature on them.
Looking at how 22Cans behaves, develops, and engages community it's not an Indie dev it's a EA wannabe.
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 20, 2014 11:45:59 GMT
22cans is not owned by a publisher and therefore we are an independent studio. A publishing deal for Godus on mobile doesn't affect that. For example, Bungie have a deal with Activision for Destiny, but they are still a wholly independent studio. I get this, but 22Cans has used its indie status to solicit iOS reviews (worded in a way that makes it seems like a struggling independent and deserving of extra credit) and solicit donations from Kickstarter backers who think 22Cans is not restricted in taking on board player feedback. From the pitch: This is demonstrably UNTRUE, because Godus has been developed with P2W mobile mechanics in mind - they are at the core of the PC build, even though the paywalls have been inelegantly wrenched out. And they cannot be redesigned or reversed because essentially the iOS version and the PC version are the same game, and to make them wildly different would presumably require a whole other team of developers working in parallel. So design decisions in Godus and the conduct of 22Cans when communicating with backers has been very much restricted by the relationship with the publisher. Seems pretty DEPENDENT to me. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 20, 2014 11:47:42 GMT
Funding it via Kickstarter allows us to stay a small independent team with unlimited freedom in our creativity. It’ll just be you, us and our unbridled dedication (no publishers).This is demonstrably UNTRUE, because Godus has been developed with P2W mobile mechanics in mind - they are at the core of the PC build, even though the paywalls have been inelegantly wrenched out. And they cannot be redesigned or reversed because essentially the iOS version and the PC version are the same game, and to make them wildly different would presumably require a whole other team of developers working in parallel. So design decisions in Godus and the conduct of 22Cans when communicating with backers has been very much restricted by the relationship with the publisher. Seems pretty DEPENDENT to me. DeNA have not impacted any of our design decisions for Godus on mobile, let alone for the desktop version of the game/ |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 20, 2014 11:51:05 GMT
22cans is not owned by a publisher and therefore we are an independent studio. A publishing deal for Godus on mobile doesn't affect that. For example, Bungie have a deal with Activision for Destiny, but they are still a wholly independent studio. So are you Monkeythumbz, in your position as community manager at 22Cans acting as the representative for 22Cans, unequivocally stating that the mobile publisher for Godus has never and in no way at all had any influence whatsoever in the development of Godus and/or had a part in decisions or suggestions regarding the design of Godus? Hypothetically speaking, would you say that in relation to the aforementioned question, you in your position of community manager so as official public representative of 22Cans, could be held responsible if your answer to the aforementioned question were to be determined to be incorrect and accepted as such by a court of law? |
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Post by julians on May 20, 2014 11:51:22 GMT
Well you're assuming the idea of making F2P cash grab came from the publisher. 22Cans apparently is and independent developer bent on creating just another mobile clone and sucking dry the community. All independent devs can't be saint and I guess 22Cans is just an ass Indie dev.
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 20, 2014 11:56:22 GMT
Funding it via Kickstarter allows us to stay a small independent team with unlimited freedom in our creativity. It’ll just be you, us and our unbridled dedication (no publishers).This is demonstrably UNTRUE, because Godus has been developed with P2W mobile mechanics in mind - they are at the core of the PC build, even though the paywalls have been inelegantly wrenched out. And they cannot be redesigned or reversed because essentially the iOS version and the PC version are the same game, and to make them wildly different would presumably require a whole other team of developers working in parallel. So design decisions in Godus and the conduct of 22Cans when communicating with backers has been very much restricted by the relationship with the publisher. Seems pretty DEPENDENT to me. DeNA have not impacted any of our design decisions for Godus on mobile, let alone for the desktop version of the game/ LOL who told you that... |
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Tau
Wannabe
Posts: 28
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Post by Tau on May 20, 2014 12:00:08 GMT
DeNA have not impacted any of our design decisions for Godus on mobile, let alone for the desktop version of the game/ Good to know, that 22Can'ts is full responsible for the disgusting, absurdly high F2P/P2W Mobile shop prices of Godus and all the design decisions around them. |
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149 
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on May 20, 2014 12:01:47 GMT
DeNA have not impacted any of our design decisions for Godus on mobile, let alone for the desktop version of the game/ Good to know, that 22Can'ts is full responsible for the disgusting, absurdly high F2P/P2W Mobile shop prices of Godus and all the design decisions around them. +1 By they way, we're all off-topic. The topic is the moderation of the steam forum... Glad this isn't a enforced rule in this forum :P |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 20, 2014 12:06:11 GMT
+1 By they way, we're all off-topic. The topic is the moderation of the steam forum... Glad this isn't a enforced rule in this forum  Aaaawwwwww... I was just getting ready to swing my hammer.  |
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 20, 2014 12:08:58 GMT
Good to know, that 22Can'ts is full responsible for the disgusting, absurdly high F2P/P2W Mobile shop prices of Godus and all the design decisions around them. +1 By they way, we're all off-topic. The topic is the moderation of the steam forum... Glad this isn't a enforced rule in this forum Haha I went off-topic in my own OP. I'm having one of those days... |
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on May 20, 2014 12:13:43 GMT
Let's get back to topic, then.
Does anyone know if Drake and Woncapank have done anything bad (insulting, trolling) in the recent time that earned them a warning?
Because they are banned at the moment which seems quite extreme for me for a first time offence. All they did was just starting a petition. Hadn't locking the thread and warning them been justice enough?
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 20, 2014 12:13:50 GMT
22cans is not owned by a publisher and therefore we are an independent studio. A publishing deal for Godus on mobile doesn't affect that. For example, Bungie have a deal with Activision for Destiny, but they are still a wholly independent studio. So are you Monkeythumbz, in your position as community manager at 22Cans acting as the representative for 22Cans, unequivocally stating that the mobile publisher for Godus has never and in no way at all had any influence whatsoever in the development of Godus and/or had a part in decisions or suggestions regarding the design of Godus? Hypothetically speaking, would you say that in relation to the aforementioned question, you in your position of community manager so as official public representative of 22Cans, could be held responsible if your answer to the aforementioned question were to be determined to be incorrect and accepted as such by a court of law? Actually no, I'm basing my statements on what I know of publisher/developer relationships after 10 years in the industry married to how I've seen the Design team work since I joined the company. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 20, 2014 12:17:53 GMT
Well PM outright said the decision to make it F2P was based on a conversation with the publisher so that's that out the window.
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razz
Participator
Posts: 17
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Post by razz on May 20, 2014 12:24:10 GMT
But basically this will be remembered as the day when the remaining goodwill of the Steam Godus Forum members died. I cannot imagine any way now to fix the relationship between the CMs and the community again. But I think that's on purpose.
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 20, 2014 12:34:52 GMT
Lack of goodwill is a massive problem and is probably why they community reps are having such a frustrating time.
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