Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 25, 2014 17:47:00 GMT
Let us try to forget all about 22Cans and Godus for a moment and consider ourselves budding game developers on a mission. Our mission is to create a game that will effectively breathe new life into the god game genre. What are your ideas on what this game should be like?
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Post by Geeky Meerkat on Feb 25, 2014 18:21:25 GMT
Well I think a simple starting point is something like how Banished is. Yes buildings take time to finish but it's a reasonable amount of time. That being said, I would sort of like to see a god game where the people are a touch more independent than Banished. That's more of a city building game where you get everyone building what buildings you want. I would rather inspire someone to become a healer and then them perhaps go to the people inspired to be builders to have them build a hospital. Someone else inspired to be a healer might either go work in that hospital if it's near or if it's to far away they might have a new one built.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 25, 2014 18:33:46 GMT
Yeah if I were to build the game I would try to keep the people as independent as possible. I like simulations. I know there are plenty of people around who like to be able to command each individual what to do. That is not really my thing. I would like for them to go about their business and surprise me with the things that they do and the way they interact. I'd like to see them grow as individuals, not only from infant to adult but also in character. What they like and dislike could be influenced by their experiences. By doing certain things more they would gain experience in it and do them more efficiently. When they stop doing certain things their experience would diminish but slowly and never below a certain point. After all you never forget how to ride a bike. Fathers could teach their sons their own trades and mothers could do the same for their daughters. I'm not thinking about modern times mind you. But some daughters might like to chop wood just as much as their fathers and not like sewing at all. And some sons might like to knit a sweater rather than skewering a deer with a bow and arrow. You get the drift.
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stuhacking
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Post by stuhacking on Feb 25, 2014 18:43:02 GMT
I think that Godus gets some things right... I think it should be a game where the only thing you do is shape the land and create 'conditions' that enable life to flourish. So, moving land, putting water next to fertile ground, etc etc. I don't think you should be artificially limited by belief, but I think that most of the game would need to thrive on the Meeps' AI. e.g.: - If you move a lot of land in a short space of time, maybe they think the area is dangerous and don't want to settle there.
- Maybe there would be tension between believers and unbelievers.
- Would you join a side in a war? If you did, would it change the believers' opinion of you as being peaceful vs vengeful?
- Would the believers and unbelievers alike have wants that you can fulfil (e.g. weather), and would it affect their belief?
I think it would be nice to be rewarded either for being a subtle deity who just nudges events into place, such that you try to keep your presence hidden-you might have a healthy mix of believers/unbelievers and the game is about keeping peace and balance; or alternatively you could be very forceful and abrupt and maybe you would have more followers, but they would be angry and warlike... coloured by your own behaviour- and the game is about maintaining a world in a constant state of decay and fighting... I think Dwarf Fortress is currently the best example of the kind of deep AI I want, but of course it's more of a management game that takes quite a lot of micromanagement.
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Post by heathen on Feb 25, 2014 19:04:33 GMT
I kinda like how Reus interpreted it. You have no control over the people whatsoever, you can only alter their environment (aside from a couple of attack abilities). You take the role of a barren world, using 3 giants to alter the landscape to make it hospitable and allow the people to flourish. Give them too much and they become greedy, attacking their neighbors, or they may even attack the giants! Perhaps a full on God sim based on the idea of having no control of your people whatsoever would be a really fun game. Sure you could still break the rocks, uproot the trees and mould the landscape, but maybe it's be nice if your little people could also do this stuff if they so wished. If you provide them with lush ripe land and multitudes of animals for them to hunt, they will expand rapidly and perhaps get out of control. Maybe the sprawling mass of people will divide up, with the people who you provided for so well hoarding all that you bestowed upon them. Maybe the outcasts, forced to live in harsher conditions, would go to war with those people living in extreme comfort. Maybe you just smash them all with a rock. The goal/story of such a game? Not quite sure!
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Lord Ba'al
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Posts: 6,260
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 25, 2014 19:07:38 GMT
I don't think you should be artificially limited by belief Well the limitation of belief would perhaps turn out to be a necessity when more than one player would be involved in the game. I think it would be nice to be rewarded either for being a subtle deity who just nudges events into place, such that you try to keep your presence hidden-you might have a healthy mix of believers/unbelievers and the game is about keeping peace and balance; or alternatively you could be very forceful and abrupt and maybe you would have more followers, but they would be angry and warlike... coloured by your own behaviour- and the game is about maintaining a world in a constant state of decay and fighting... Interesting thought about people knowing you are around or not knowing and that having an effect.
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stuhacking
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Post by stuhacking on Feb 25, 2014 19:17:44 GMT
Well the limitation of belief would perhaps turn out to be a necessity when more than one player would be involved in the game. Oh, I see. Yeah.. not really looking for a multiplayer game What I meant was, you shouldn't ever be restricted from doing something just because you don't have enough belief. But I guess there'd need to be some limiting factor for multiplayer. What form would multiplayer take? If we're thinking about battles then your belief would automatically affect the amount of people who would 'fight for your cause.' And how fanatical they are would affect how much fighting they would put up with before losing faith... How about this idea for multiplayer: The Meeps are not able to differentiate one god (player) from another... all they witness are effects. ... I kinda like that, but I don't have the mechanics fully formed in my head yet
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 25, 2014 19:25:32 GMT
Yeah I like that too. From a human being's perspective there is no reason to believe there is more than one god handling things. Hmmm... unless perhaps they see things happen that are contradicting/nullifying other things they see happening. Perhaps that could be worked out.
I think I would start of creating a simulation where people live their lives all by themselves without any kind of interference. Once that simulation is interesting enough for someone to just sit and watch what happens it is time to start working on player interaction. After that part has been developed it would be time to start considering a multiplayer aspect.
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Post by carcosa on Feb 26, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
What do you mean by "god game"? The Sims is a god game Dungeon Keeper Black and White Civilization
All these are god games. What do you mean by god game?
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Post by carcosa on Feb 26, 2014 2:54:34 GMT
Twilight sparkle?? Really??
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Post by julians on Feb 26, 2014 9:30:23 GMT
I liked the terrain manupulation idea, but like somebody before me I'd take it a lot further than Godus does. People would need water, forests, plains and mountains, what they settle next to determines what they can and cannot do.
I like Reus idea of making environments, planting plants and animals that work well with each other.
Personally i don't care about Multiplayer but maybe Gods would fight with each other using spells: meteor, lightning etc. but the followers all live in one tow so if you're casting g a meteor to wipe out people you're wiping out your own followers as well.
Back before Godus started I was hoping there would be more to Gods that good evil. Element gods: water, fire earth: Start with 4 basic actions: make fire, sping(water), wind, something for earth. The more you use each action the more powerful it becomes. So with time you could make tidal waves if you did a lot of water related actions. These could be combined: after reaching a certain level in earth and fire you could make a volcano, earth and water: mudslide, water and air, geyser etc.
And finally godus inspired me to make a small progress on my own god game: one where you decide what is good and evil, by answering prayers and punishing/rewarding. People come to you with questions about daily life and what you answer will shape how they live. You can tell them to bury their dead, or burn them or ignore the bodies. Want to have as a first commandment You shall kill/steal etc., fine.
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chrism
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Post by chrism on Feb 26, 2014 10:29:54 GMT
You see in the beginning, God created the heavens and earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said 'let there be light',. God saw that the light was good......
In my opinion, God (with a capital G) is the big fella that kicked it all off and set in motion a series of big events that allowed and encouraged a chain reaction of events to occur. Whilst it probably need not follow the Old Testament too much, that is pretty much where we should start. Godus could call this guy 'Brian'.
I'm pretty happy with the other major alternative religions/races ideas of multiple Deities who each may control certain aspects. You may need a god of war etc.
Using a real world analogy, some of Gods creations work better than others. Some make use of the natural resources they have for good and bad. When Man started being aware, he wanted things others he could see others had. Some developed tools, others weapons, others learnt to kill animals, some set up farms, and others traded. There was free will rather than God micro managing each transaction and most races made the most of available restores, some went and took them.
By Brians action on a huge scale, events chain react. For those that just like to fight, do we have a war torn tribal faction led nation that just is unable to get peace? Why were they like that? Did they not have the right resources? What happens if you are next door to such a nation? What happens if you have a resource rich area? Do you buy land or convert others to follow you or destroy the next race? Do you form alliances that lead to unintended wars or have other trade sanctions?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 26, 2014 11:59:15 GMT
What do you mean by "god game"? The Sims is a god game Dungeon Keeper Black and White Civilization All these are god games. What do you mean by god game? Well I guess it depends on how literal you'd want to be. To me in the purest sense a god game is a game in which you take the role of a god. I wouldn't call The Sims a god game because in that game you control the actions of individuals. In that sense it is more like a possession game. (I think I may have just invented a new word) If you'd consider the original Populous, what you did there was transform land and cast spells. There was no control whatsoever over the people who inhabited the lands, they went forth and multiplied by themselves. Only thing you could do was attract them to a certain location by use of a totem pole. Or eventually you could cast a armageddon spell which caused all people to attack the people of the other tribe. At this moment I can't really think of any other pure god game. I love Civilization. It is a game that involves a lot of strategy. But is it a god game? I think not. To me playing that feels more like being a tribal leader who never dies. You decide the movements and actions of units, what units or expansions to build and what technologies to develop. You are very much in control of what goes on with your tribe. In fact you control it all. You are like a leader but not much like a god, apart from your immortality off course. As for Dungeon Keeper and Black and White, I have never actually really played those so I can't be the judge on those. Twilight sparkle?? Really?? If you are referring to the default avatar, I chose that one on purpose so that members would have an incentive to change it to something else.
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Post by carcosa on Feb 26, 2014 13:17:20 GMT
sounds like you folks are looking for a cross between Populous and Black and White.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 26, 2014 14:01:20 GMT
If I remember correctly, a long long time ago (probably over a year), I posted on the 22Cans forum that I'd love a crossover between Populous the Beginning, The Settlers (original) and Civilization. Populous because of the awesome spells. Settlers because of the awesome resource mechanics and charm of the little people. Civilization because of the tech advances. Hmmm... come to think of it I might not even have mentioned Civilization before. I do remember mentioning Caesar because of the way buildings (d)evolved by themselves in that game when conditions around them changed.
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Post by Deth on Feb 26, 2014 17:59:17 GMT
For me I would love a Populous/Black & White game. I really hoped that I could slap my people around and raise a really war like evil race. I would also like a tech tree that I could guide my people down. Maybe having the ability to plant an idea in some one head to try to unlock a tech tree choice or drop some object for them to find. Such as using the finger of god to start a fire and having someone find it to have fire available for your civilization.
I also like the idea of having a choice to be hands off and letting your people act on their own or go more hands on and having your people look to you for all the choices. It would be interesting to see what they chose based off the little actions you have taken in the back ground, vs. the skill and challenge of having to micro manage everything they do and maybe handle invasions like in an Age of Empires style game.
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Post by carcosa on Feb 26, 2014 21:49:53 GMT
Did anyone ASK for a hybrid B&W/populous game?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 26, 2014 21:52:12 GMT
Did anyone ASK for a hybrid B&W/populous game? Ask who?
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Post by carcosa on Feb 26, 2014 21:53:29 GMT
the designers. Or did they just say "here try this"?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 26, 2014 22:08:41 GMT
Well the Godus project was pitched on Kickstarter as a regenesis of the god game genre. It would incorporate influences from Populous, Dungeon Keeper and Black and White. They did say they wanted to develop it with help from the backers but we misinterpreted that as them wanting our opinion which was our mistake. So then eventually with the alpha and beta versions it was pretty much like you say "here try this".
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