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Post by hardly on Jul 6, 2014 7:13:21 GMT
Before I get into this I want to say I'm not having a go at 22cans about this I don't really mind if they discount GODUS. I'm more interested in what discounting means for the confidence 22cans have in their own product.
So GODUS is on sale on GMG for $5US. I can't help but think a 75% off sale for an EA game is a bad idea. You haven't even finished the game and you are cannibalising your sales. Look at dayz and rust and they haven't been discounted heavily that I've seen. KSP is a game that's been in EA a long time and I've never seen that more than 40% off. If your game is going to get better then shouldn't you hold out for that better version?
Obviously 22cans feel they really need the money and the 25% now is better than 100% later. I believe this is a symptom and an acceptance that GODUS (PC) has pretty much achieved all it's going to achieve. If they truly believed the game would get significantly better in the future they would not be selling the game for $5 now.
I believe we are seeing the demise of 22Cans barring a successful Mobile release.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 6, 2014 8:20:16 GMT
Perhaps you're right.
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Post by hardly on Jul 6, 2014 8:47:36 GMT
Do you think it is a wise decision to discount an EA game by so much or a sign of desperation?
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 6, 2014 8:48:49 GMT
Steam's hard-discount sales are crazy. I have a LOT of games in my library that I would never have bought at full price, and I hardly play most of them. Some games I've never even opened, and some I've started but have less than an hour of playing time because I felt kind of "meh" about them. In this way, the Steam sale opens up Godus up to a whole new market - people who don't even particularly want it but get suckered in by what looks like an amazing deal. The added bonus is that these people are less likely to bitch and moan and leave bad reviews. They took a gambit on a super cheap game and don't really care if it doesn't pay off. So including Godus in these sales may be strategic as well as a desperate cash-grab.
There was a discussion on the Steam forums a while ago about 22Cans finances and it's really interesting, though not having any familiarity with how other game developers finance themselves I can't make much sense of it. The year-end financials for 2013 showed a massive balance of short-term liabilities - far in excess of their assets, which is a huge red flag. Short-term liabilities are obligations that fall due within the year, so with no obvious means of paying these, 22Cans looked doomed. The notes to the statements said that they were able to continue as a going concern because they had confidence in raising funds in 2014, and shortly after year-end enough money was avaialble to pay the debts. Could have been money from DeNA, maybe?
We don't have a revenue figure for 2013 but the massive debt was odd. It could have related to a loan that fell due in 2014, but you wouldn't normally expect to see a loan so far in excess of the company's fixed assets. It was over £1m, and I wonder if 22Cans might have been recognising Early Access sales as deferred revenue. This would mean the sales would be recognised as an obligation (debt) to the consumers until the obligation is fulfilled - presumably the release date of the game - which would mean they expect PC Godus to be complete in 2014 (Peter said in one of his Christmas videos that this would "definitely" be the case). Now, I don't know how other companies recognise Early Access sales, but approaching this as an accountant I would say this treatment is incorrect. When a consumer buys an Early Access game they are paying for an unfinished product, and 22Cans delivered an unfinished product. 22Cans is not obliged to finish Godus. Therefore in my opinion, Early Access sales should be recognised immediately as revenue.
Having said that, I should reiterate that we have no information about the liability balance and it may not be deferred revenue.
22Cans has over 30 employees and also makes use of contractors, who are notoriously expensive. A conservative estimate of their annual salary expense would be at least £750k but probably higher. In addition to that they have rent, energy bills and tax. I think sales figures on Steam will have been pretty good due to the immense amount of hype surrounding this game and PM's reputation, but that money will burn out VERY fast if 22Cans doesn't pull its act together. Every month of delay is another month of expenses.
At this point most of their eggs are in the basket of the iOS release. They cannot afford the time it would take to redevelop the PC game. They'd go bust. They can sort out the PC game if they have the will to, but it'll need to be after they've secured a stream of income from the mobile. We haven't talked about the mobile release all that much here, partly because there's not much interest in it but also because there isn't much to say - it's currently as buggy and unfinished as the PC version. It's difficult to see how iOS Godus can go from what it is now to being a lucrative money-maker, but then again, we do know that they've been working very hard on it and we don't know how much income they're already getting from it. I don't really understand the mindframe of mobile gamers who pay for microtransactions in games like this, so I have no feel for whether iOS Godus is appealing to these gamers.
22Cans always has a possible lifeline, which is funding from its shareholders. Peter Molyneux probably has a personal fortune he could put into the company if needed. That would be a serious case of putting your money where your mouth is: if he really has confidence that Godus is destined for success, he has nothing to worry about. But it seems pretty unwise to be loading your money onto a sinking ship, if it should come to that.
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Post by hardly on Jul 6, 2014 9:12:46 GMT
Its possible that Peter has loaned the company money as a way of investing. That might explain why such a big liability is recognised but not an immediate threat to the company
Steam sales are a smart method of price discrimination if managed right. Like you I have bought many games I've never really played. The problem is price discrimination relies on the ability to differentiate people's willingness to pay. With a normal game price discrimination works off people's eagerness to play the game. People who want the game immediately have to buy it at the full price. Over time the price drops and people who weren't willing to pay the full price pick it up. This allows the company to maximise revenue and sales. The unpredictability of sales is also important - patient people will wait, inpatient people will buy immediately at the higher price.
The problem with applying this logic to GODUS is that GODUS hasn't been released yet. It has had negative feedback since launch and some people never buy EA. This means GODUS probably never had the full game moment that other games have where all the initial buyers purchased it. There were/are undoubtably people out there who were waiting to buy GODUS at full price later in its development who have now paid $5 undermining future revenue. It's a sugar rush. If they'd been able to maintain the $20 price until a successful launch they might have picked up a whole lot of sales at the full price assuming some positive hype.
This is why I think the pricing is informative. Either 22cans is desperate for money and/or they know the game won't improve. The former suggests they are at risk of going bust, the later that they have given up on GODUS PC. Only time will tell the truth.
Still no patch for GODUS mobile which is incredibly surprising given its buggy state.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 6, 2014 11:49:56 GMT
Do you think it is a wise decision to discount an EA game by so much or a sign of desperation? It could be either, or both.
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 6, 2014 12:03:28 GMT
When I hear about that drastic of a price drop, only one phrase comes to mind. Fire Sale. I'm all about low-balling to beat out the competition but too low seems suspect. I would have gone with 9.95 so people think they are just getting a good deal, perhaps make it the 5 bucks for one day only to do a true shock and awe.
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 6, 2014 12:06:40 GMT
Do you think it is a wise decision to discount an EA game by so much or a sign of desperation? It could be either, or both. I think that depends on how over priced it was to begin with. If the price of say "Sim City" is 80 bucks and they lower to 45 which is half, I think it makes sense. The point being it never should have been that high to begin with and some people will simply not pay that much for a game. Even still, I would start lowering by 5 bucks and seeing how many more bites I got, and if that did not work, then keep lowering it until your sales hit your target.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 6, 2014 12:52:17 GMT
Pricing strategies for Early Access and Pre-Purchase games are messed up. I paid full ticket price for Godus I don't know what I was thinking. I would argue that Early Access should always be discounted, because these customers are taking a big risk in funding the vision of the developer. The game may never even be completed and the customer is not entitled to any kind of refund. In addition, the customer is actually providing a valuable service to the developer because they are finding bugs.
Full price for an Early Access game is only justified if the customer actually feels the benefit of "being a part of the development process". This is really difficult to quantify. 22Cans claim to have made all kinds of changes to Godus in response to user feedback, but it still barely resembles what most customers had hoped for. Also, not all customers are going to be giving the same feedback. You're not going to have much input into the development process if your ideas are unpopular, either with the studio or with the rest of the player base.
Pre-purchase at full price is also ridiculous on Steam. Why bother doing this? It's not as if you're going to login to Steam on the release date to find it's out of stock.
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Post by greay on Jul 6, 2014 18:05:24 GMT
When I hear about that drastic of a price drop, only one phrase comes to mind. Fire Sale. I'm all about low-balling to beat out the competition but too low seems suspect. I would have gone with 9.95 so people think they are just getting a good deal, perhaps make it the 5 bucks for one day only to do a true shock and awe. Quite the contrary – based on what I've heard, Steam sales are crazy. The lower the discount, the more money the developers make. I wish I could give you numbers to back this up (I've been trying to dig up sources for it myself), but I've been to 2 separate financial developer talks and they both said more or less the same thing.
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 6, 2014 18:52:51 GMT
When I hear about that drastic of a price drop, only one phrase comes to mind. Fire Sale. I'm all about low-balling to beat out the competition but too low seems suspect. I would have gone with 9.95 so people think they are just getting a good deal, perhaps make it the 5 bucks for one day only to do a true shock and awe. Quite the contrary – based on what I've heard, Steam sales are crazy. The lower the discount, the more money the developers make. I wish I could give you numbers to back this up (I've been trying to dig up sources for it myself), but I've been to 2 separate financial developer talks and they both said more or less the same thing. I would love to see some real numbers.
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Post by greay on Jul 6, 2014 20:20:57 GMT
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 6, 2014 20:37:42 GMT
This isn't just any game. This is a game that has been troubled since the get go. This game, I would love to hear some real numbers on.
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Post by rubgish on Jul 6, 2014 22:19:25 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if Godus had sold in the region of 750,000 - 1,000,000 copies at the moment, maybe more. Lets take a look at the dustforce sales figures that Greay provided the link to. When they were part of the humble bundle (september 2012), they sold 138,000 copies of their game, including 50,000 on one day. That's a lot of copies. Now if you look at their steamchart, they only went up to a spike of 300 people playing at once (from a baseline of 10-20). That's less than 1% of new players playing the game at any given time! For Godus, the first major sale was christmas 2013, and as a result of that, it went from 300 peak players to over 2500. If we extrapolated from the dustforce figures* [i.e 50,000 -> 300 extra on peak], this would indicate sales in the region of 300,000 - 400,000 [i.e. 360,000 -> 2200 extra on peak] *Now in the analysis here, it is important to point out that the humble bundle deal is spread over a larger period & contains multiple games, so the likely % playing at a given time is probably lower than a direct sale, though this was the steam christmas sale and people would most likely buy multiple games, in the same way the humble bundle provides multiple games, so it might not be as large a factor as expected.
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 6, 2014 22:45:02 GMT
Yes, but this is all conjecture. I would really like to hear what the REAL numbers are. Until then, I think it could go either way.
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Post by rubgish on Jul 6, 2014 23:27:34 GMT
Well, the one number we do know is that Peter has said before there were over a million installs of the game right? I can't remember the source on that, but I'm sure someone else will.
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 7, 2014 0:06:21 GMT
Well, the one number we do know is that Peter has said before there were over a million installs of the game right? I can't remember the source on that, but I'm sure someone else will. I don't mean to be rude but everything out of PM's mouth has not proven to be true. Hard core proof is in the pudding for me.
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Post by julians on Jul 7, 2014 7:38:02 GMT
I don't think you can apply Dustforce humble bundle sale pattern to Godus sale. I think December was a time of some major update and that was a cause of the spike. In fact as far as I remember Godus had spikes only after updates and sales were not represented in usage data.
And I call BS on one million installs.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 7, 2014 8:32:47 GMT
Well, the one number we do know is that Peter has said before there were over a million installs of the game right? I can't remember the source on that, but I'm sure someone else will. PM said this around Christmas in some video/interview. If this is true, 22Cans 2013 revenue must have been at least £5m (conservatively assuming the average price paid for a copy of Godus is £5). If this is accurate, they've done a good job of keeping it off the balance sheet. The profit and loss account shows -£919k and and net assets is -£710k. I also just noticed the following note of the financial statements: "The company offers a share option scheme for eligible staff. It has granted over 45,170 shares to 18 staff members. All option agreements are for a 9 year period and have an exercise price of 1p per share. All optinos are exerciseable only when and if the company is sold, or if its shares are listed on any recognised exchange." I have a feeling 22Cans employees entered this game expecting 22Cans to be the next King.
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Post by hardly on Jul 7, 2014 9:16:25 GMT
I hope the GODUS shares don't make up too much of their salary package. It reminds me of this guy: www.theguardian.com/science/2012/apr/19/royal-society-publish-isaac-newton-principia
While I think the most probable outcome is that the mobile version tanks and 22Cans goes down with it, its not impossible for it to be a hit and for 22Cans to become the next King. I don't hate the mobile game that much. From what I saw before it crapped out it was reasonably fair in terms of micro transactions compared to other FTP games and the general standard of the graphics and gameplay is quite good for mobile. It was a pain in the ass to play on phone though with the controls difficult to manage. It would probably be a vast improvement on Candy Crush and Farmville.
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