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Post by Qetesh on Aug 4, 2014 18:06:02 GMT
So, are theses buffs meant to be for use to sell gems in mobile? If so, what happens in the PC version?
This is why I asked this to begin with, gems and buffs in F2p are linked to make money. Is this a mechanic in Godus mobile and if so how will it not be in PC , since PC is not a F2p and yet the PC version is also not to be a watered down version of the mobile?
Can you guarantee this won't be a F2p element at all? If not why are you debating this with me?
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 18:11:24 GMT
So, are theses buffs meant to be for use to sell gems in mobile? If so, what happens in the PC version? This is why I asked this to begin with, gems and buffs in F2p are linked to make money. Is this a mechanic in Godus mobile and if so how will it not be in PC , since PC is not a F2p? Buffs and gems are separate in Godus, as explained in my prervious post. To buff something does neither requires nor uses gems, however you can accelerate the rate at which something completes (building/farming/mining) by spending gems. We will be sharing details on how you can accelerate the rate of production on PC - which, for the record, will not require any micro-transactions (i.e. in-game purchases for real-world money) - later this week, most likely on Friday. EDIT: I'm debating this with you only because you implied that I was erroneous in my use of the term buff in a previous post on this forum, and I'm merely defending my position as being the more accurate.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 4, 2014 18:13:15 GMT
As it stands, Godus on iOS/Android is a F2P experience. Just curious, on a personal level, how on Earth does this square with you, personally? I'm specifically talking about how the game was pitched and sold to people on the premise that the manner in which it would be multi-platform was in a persistent fashion - you can play on your computer at home, leave to go to work, and play your same game on the bus while commuting, etc. I mean, this very issue is the origin of probably 90% of the vitriol and disappointment levied at this game. How could that sit well with you, or anyone at that studio?
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 18:15:19 GMT
As it stands, Godus on iOS/Android is a F2P experience. Just curious, on a personal level, how on Earth does this square with you, personally? I'm specifically talking about how the game was pitched and sold to people on the premise that the manner in which it would be multi-platform was in a persistent fashion - you can play on your computer at home, leave to go to work, and play your same game on the bus while commuting, etc. I mean, this very issue is the origin of probably 90% of the vitriol and disappointment levied at this game. How could that sit well with you, or anyone at that studio? I'm working on the understanding the we will fulfil all of our original Kickstarter pledges in the fullness of time. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what we achieve in the PC-focused sprint. I honestly believe Peter when he says that he still wants Godus to be a great game on PC for PC gamers. I mean, the guy has made some terrific PC games before whose mechanics still hold up today, so from where I'm sitting making Godus a great PC game for PC gamers is far from impossible given his track record as a designer.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 4, 2014 18:20:05 GMT
How does that make sense? That there will be a pc-focused sprint only further illustrates that the mobile and pc version will be distinctly different. One FTP, the other, whatever it ends up being. Clearly, not persistent between the two mediums.
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 4, 2014 18:21:44 GMT
So, are theses buffs meant to be for use to sell gems in mobile? If so, what happens in the PC version? This is why I asked this to begin with, gems and buffs in F2p are linked to make money. Is this a mechanic in Godus mobile and if so how will it not be in PC , since PC is not a F2p? Buffs and gems are separate in Godus, as explained in my prervious post. To buff something does neither requires nor uses gems, however you can accelerate the rate at which something completes (building/farming/mining) by spending gems.We will be sharing details on how you can accelerate the rate of production on PC - which, for the record, will not require any micro-transactions (i.e. in-game purchases for real-world money) - later this week, most likely on Friday. EDIT: I'm debating this with you only because you implied that I was erroneous in my use of the term buff in a previous post on this forum, and I'm merely defending my position as being the more accurate. This is what I smelled and henceforth took issue with. The term buffs in other senses might be fine, but this is pure and simple the same as SO F2p buffs.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 18:24:14 GMT
How does that make sense? That there will be a pc-focused sprint only further illustrates that the mobile and pc version will be distinctly different. One FTP, the other, whatever it ends up being. Clearly, not persistent between the two mediums. I think elements of the two games will be persistent - chiefly Hubworld. Other aspects of the game will be differentiated and you'll begin to see the start of that with the Settlements revamp. So long as the final game is well liked by its respective audience, taking the platform on which it's played into account, then I will be happy and think we'll have fulfilled our goals.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 4, 2014 18:25:11 GMT
I don't trust the interwebz to be 100% accurate in regards to historical facts, especially when it comes to terminology or slang, unless you're reading a certified publication or knowledge archive database - and even then.
Now... the term 'buff' to me does not make me think of f2p games at all. Of course, I don't really play any f2p mobile type games, so I wasn't even aware thia term would even be used or apply in f2p. Instead, when I hear 'buff' I think of RPGs, FPS, and RTS games among others. Although I didn't use or encounter the term much back then, it has been in my vocabulary since at least the 90's - and i don't mean the term 'to buff' meaning to polish or fluff something. We used it losely, and rarely, in tabletop pen & paper rpg games (we used the term 'buffer') to represent any kind of enhancement or protective effect (usually spells) genarally in regards to affecting damage. When I started playing MMOs in the late 90's early 2000's it was slowly becoming a common term. I know terms evolve over time, but to get upset claiming that the presence of 'buffs' - even used loosely - in Godus as evidence it's a F2P game is just ridiculous.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 18:28:16 GMT
This is what I smelled and henceforth took issue with. The term buffs in other senses might be fine, but this is pure and simple the same as SO F2p buffs. That's not a buff, it's an accelerator. Sorry to be a dick about this, but in design terms the two mechanics are quite distinct from one another. However I wholeheartedly agree that using premium currency, e.g. gems/crystals/coins/whatever, to accelerate your rate of progression is a mechanic traditionally associated with F2P games, yes.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 4, 2014 18:41:28 GMT
How does that make sense? That there will be a pc-focused sprint only further illustrates that the mobile and pc version will be distinctly different. One FTP, the other, whatever it ends up being. Clearly, not persistent between the two mediums. I think elements of the two games will be persistent - chiefly Hubworld. Other aspects of the game will be differentiated and you'll begin to see the start of that with the Settlements revamp. So long as the final game is well liked by its respective audience, taking the platform on which it's played into account, then I will be happy and think we'll have fulfilled our goals. 'The ends justify the means', in other words. To me, see, pitching a cross-platform persistent game, and selling a product to people, relying on them for crowdfunding, even, then doing a complete 180 and producing a FTP game as the mobile part when in fact during the crowdfunding campaign the notion of FTP was explicitly denied, is extremely duplicitous and one can easily argue fraudulent. Even were the game amazing, the above would still leave a sour taste in my mouth. I know none of the above has much of anything to do with you, but you do work there so just wondering your perspective, so thanks for sharing that, at least.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 4, 2014 18:44:49 GMT
As it stands, Godus on iOS/Android is a F2P experience. To answer your question, on mobile you can use gems to speed up the rate at which building/farming/mining completes. Sorry to digress from this thoroughly diverting 'buff' conversation (thank you for proving the various definitions, everyone) but this is interesting. I knew gems could be used to buy stickers in the mobile version, but not that it could be used to reduce timers. Do you know how this realises PM's vision of an entirely new and innovative way of monetising F2P games? We've yet to see any explanation of this.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 19:03:19 GMT
As it stands, Godus on iOS/Android is a F2P experience. To answer your question, on mobile you can use gems to speed up the rate at which building/farming/mining completes. Sorry to digress from this thoroughly diverting 'buff' conversation (thank you for proving the various definitions, everyone) but this is interesting. I knew gems could be used to buy stickers in the mobile version, but not that it could be used to reduce timers. Do you know how this realises PM's vision of an entirely new and innovative way of monetising F2P games? We've yet to see any explanation of this. The aggressiveness and necessity of our monetisation mechanics are greatly reduced in comparison with other F2P games. A lot of games force you to spend money to progress within the first 10 minutes, in Godus that's simply not the case. Additionally, in Godus we always provide the player with something to do - everything from Voyages to manually speeding up building progression by boosting the Inspiration levels of individual workers. In terms of how we balance the game and our design philosophy, our goal is to be much less exploitative in our monetisation techniques than other F2P games and we don't want you to feel that monetisation is invasive to your gameplay experience.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 4, 2014 19:09:20 GMT
Just curious, on a personal level, how on Earth does this square with you, personally? I'm specifically talking about how the game was pitched and sold to people on the premise that the manner in which it would be multi-platform was in a persistent fashion - you can play on your computer at home, leave to go to work, and play your same game on the bus while commuting, etc. I mean, this very issue is the origin of probably 90% of the vitriol and disappointment levied at this game. How could that sit well with you, or anyone at that studio? I'm working on the understanding the we will fulfil all of our original Kickstarter pledges in the fullness of time. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what we achieve in the PC-focused sprint. I honestly believe Peter when he says that he still wants Godus to be a great game on PC for PC gamers. I mean, the guy has made some terrific PC games before whose mechanics still hold up today, so from where I'm sitting making Godus a great PC game for PC gamers is far from impossible given his track record as a designer. I want to preface this post with saying, I'm of the same mind as you in regards to the whole buff discussion (+stat increase) since I've played many MMOs and other games where the terminology is used in an entirely independent fashion to whatever BS the F2P games are trying to push. However I feel compelled to tackle this particular point as I want to know, how can you really still believe Peter's capabilities given that a number of his recent titles have been lambasted? Fable 1 being probably the start of it, 2 just continuing it (but toned down since it did improve in some ways), and 3 was a complete mess to more critically minded folks. Even Black & White 2 is frequently hammered when an article about Molyneux pops up, with many frustrated that it didn't improve much past the first game. And really, aside from Fable 2, these are some of his most recent releases on PC (excluding The Movies which only occasionally comes up in comments on Molyneux articles, interestingly enough). What's worse is that, Fable 3 being his last "PC" title (since it was a port), is our best indicator of where he'd probably like to go with future games which is to say, fluff microtransactions. (Speaking of, what happened to it being on Steam? All that remains to indicate it was ever there are a few trailers.)
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 4, 2014 19:11:02 GMT
Your not being a dick, but it is nit picking a bit. I heard the term "buff" and I knew that you already had a gem shop and so I assumed that you be using your buffs as a way to make money from your gem shop. I did this because several of the F2p, I played did this. Now, semantics aside from what you just said I was right and although the term "buff" was not created by F2p, when you add it to the mix with gems, it becomes exactly what I was afraid of.
For the record, because of my experience with F2p and buffs and gems, I now cringe at the sound of both terms even if I were to hear them with any other non F2p like Wow or Sims. If you use your gems to buy into or out of buffs, then it sucks big fat donkey cajones.
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 4, 2014 19:15:02 GMT
Sorry to digress from this thoroughly diverting 'buff' conversation (thank you for proving the various definitions, everyone) but this is interesting. I knew gems could be used to buy stickers in the mobile version, but not that it could be used to reduce timers. Do you know how this realises PM's vision of an entirely new and innovative way of monetising F2P games? We've yet to see any explanation of this. The aggressiveness and necessity of our monetisation mechanics are greatly reduced in comparison with other F2P games. A lot of games force you to spend money to progress within the first 10 minutes, in Godus that's simply not the case. Additionally, in Godus we always provide the player with something to do - everything from Voyages to manually speeding up building progression by boosting the Inspiration levels of individual workers. In terms of how we balance the game and our design philosophy, our goal is to be much less exploitative in our monetisation techniques than other F2P games and we don't want you to feel that monetisation is invasive to your gameplay experience. With days long timers that can be bought out of with buffs or gems? If so, it is very much exactly like the others, if not worse than some. SO is almost gem free needed for the first 25 levels. Most FB games don't really need you ever buy a game till much later in the game till you are completely sucked in either. Cafe Wars never got a penny for the first few months from me till my food started taking hours to cook, this sounds very similar to Godus with the first few levels have acceptable timers till you are sucked in and then wallop you with the much longer ones to get your cash.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 19:15:15 GMT
I want to know, how can you really still believe Peter's capabilities given that a number of his recent titles have been lambasted? Fable 1 being probably the start of it, 2 just continuing it (but toned down since it did improve in some ways), and 3 was a complete mess to more critically minded folks. Even Black & White 2 is frequently hammered when an article about Molyneux pops up, with many frustrated that it didn't improve much past the first game. And really, aside from Fable 2, these are some of his most recent releases on PC (excluding The Movies which only occasionally comes up in comments on Molyneux articles, interestingly enough). What's worse is that, Fable 3 being his last "PC" title (since it was a port), is our best indicator of where he'd probably like to go with future games which is to say, fluff microtransactions. (Speaking of, what happened to it being on Steam? All that remains to indicate it was ever there are a few trailers.) Having worked both for and at publishers, I still hold on to the fact that free of publishing constraints (even DeNA feels like more of a distribution + marketing deal given how little impact they have - no exec producers or exec designers involved), Peter will be able to achieve his vision in a more complete and fulfilling way than at any other time since the Bullfrog buy-out. Peter doesn't want to make a bad game - really, none of us do - and we all want the PC version to be a truly great game. The proof of that, for me, will be in what we achieve with the PC-focused sprint later this year.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 19:19:28 GMT
With days long timers that can be bought out of with buffs or gems? If so, it is very much exactly like the others, if not worse than some. SO is almost gem free needed for the first 25 levels. Most FB games don't really need you ever buy a game till much later in the game till you are completely sucked in either. Cafe Wars never got a penny for the first few months from me till my food started taking hours to cook, this sounds very similar to Godus with the first few levels have acceptable timers till you are sucked in and then wallop you with the much longer ones to get your cash. I think how we're trying to differentiate ourselves is by always giving the player something to do, rather than blocking activity altogether.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 4, 2014 19:25:15 GMT
Sorry to digress from this thoroughly diverting 'buff' conversation (thank you for proving the various definitions, everyone) but this is interesting. I knew gems could be used to buy stickers in the mobile version, but not that it could be used to reduce timers. Do you know how this realises PM's vision of an entirely new and innovative way of monetising F2P games? We've yet to see any explanation of this. The aggressiveness and necessity of our monetisation mechanics are greatly reduced in comparison with other F2P games. A lot of games force you to spend money to progress within the first 10 minutes, in Godus that's simply not the case. Additionally, in Godus we always provide the player with something to do - everything from Voyages to manually speeding up building progression by boosting the Inspiration levels of individual workers. In terms of how we balance the game and our design philosophy, our goal is to be much less exploitative in our monetisation techniques than other F2P games and we don't want you to feel that monetisation is invasive to your gameplay experience. This isn't entirely true from what I've seen and is mostly representative of a misguided design mindset. If you try to suggest your game is better simply because it makes it take longer to reach the Cash Prompt, you're screwing up the entire design making things sluggish and unpleasant (which has been seen with the current construction timers). Following that, you're not doing a very good job right now at avoiding Cash Prompt Intrusion since any time you get close to low belief, you're nagging at the player to visit the Gem Store with Belief Packs and any time you visit the Timeline, you're being nagged at with Sticker Packs to, again, visit the Gem Store. I like the idea, to a degree, but everything about how you're approaching it right now outright sucks. If you don't want it to be invasive, your best approach was in the old 1.03 version where it was left relatively subtle, gem costs mentioned on the edges of cards (not jumping out at you every so often) and interwoven with the building descriptions to accelerate the belief generation. That's the better way to handle it and be subtle, then you just need to reimplement gem veins (alongside retaining the hidden temples) but automatically add the mined out gems to your stockpile and recalibrate the timers to not be seem nigh impossible to get through without spending money to speed them up. That's the fairest way you could approach this and has been seen loosely done in some other games (e.g. GW2 gold-gem exchange, EVE ISK-PLEX exchange, WildStar gold-CREDD exchange). Honestly it'd even be relatively innovative since instead of creating competing/dual currencies, you're unifying them, but that brings a host of its own problems since it encourages you guys to make it take longer to mine gems or receive fewer from temples as it removes an incentive to buy them. However, if I was creating a F2P game, my first goal would be to make it good, my last goal would be to try to balance the whole around monetization, but then, that's why I never want to find myself making F2P titles because that's a near certain way to bankrupt myself. ...Which is also why I think the whole F2P model is the worst possible design model for a game because it's very good at putting money at the forefront of your thoughts rather than quality game design.
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Post by hardly on Aug 4, 2014 19:39:52 GMT
I have to agree with George buffing definitely goes back a long way before f2p. I first recall being aware of it in early 2000s with Everquest where you had buffs that players cast on other players. You also have characters and abilities getting buffed/nerfed by designers. Moving a river to irrigate a village doesn't seem like f2p to me.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 19:41:59 GMT
Moving a river to irrigate a village doesn't seem like f2p to me. Please do bear in mind that such a feature would be for a future update, not for the one that is so close to being released now I can almost taste it.
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