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Post by Qetesh on Sept 12, 2014 23:48:56 GMT
I don't know maybe it is my forgiving nature, thought honestly I am really annoyed with them over all or maybe I am just feeling the Devils advocate right now, but I do not think they were planning F2P during the Kickstarter but once they release what they had to the Alpha then opened it to beta and saw how much back lash they were getting and thought "Oh crap. They want more of a game we can make right now we need some quick cash to keep going. Lets do F2P." Though on the other hand they did say they had other sources of cash during the kickstarter did they not? Who knows maybe they were planning F2P from the beginning and had an early deal with DeNA. I believe the deal with Dena came out quite early right after the boards opened to backers so I just find that hard to believe. I also find it hard to believe since it is coming from the same person that claimed to hate Farmville F2p after the deal for DeNa was revealed. This was told to the backers to reassure us that Godus would not be a F2p. |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 13, 2014 0:38:56 GMT
Yeah, that's some nonsense on his part. While it may be technically true that 'many kickstarter backers supported Godus as a mobile project', it's entirely irrelevant in this context, because the 'mobile project' they were supporting was drastically, drastically different than the FTP game you see now. As Qetesh says, a quick look at the kickstarter comments spells that out quite clearly. They did not knowingly support a FTP game, and most, by a wide margin, would not have supported Godus had they known it's mobile side would be FTP. So IF, and it's a big IF, there are kickstarter backers who actually are stoked about Godus mobile being FTP, the use of the word 'many' is spurious, and them having been 'very vocal' can be roughly translated to 'we got a few positive emails as direct feedback'. Which is pretty underwhelming. I will say with that steam thread, George is right to point out that the particular specific issue being discussed - ie, 'naming stuff' - is totally trivial. Everyone else in that thread is completely correct to point out that that isn't really the point, however. It ain't really about 'naming stuff'. It's especially irritating when my statement was just that Godus was backed because people considered it a pc title with a mobile offering and that the mobile offering would be a stripped down version. Having people back Godus for the mobile version doesn't disprove that the primary aspect of this project is the pc version. Apart from mobile-first titles, anyone buying a title on mobile that's offered as both mobile and pc expects the mobile version to be stripped down to some extent. I wish I had access to the Godus boards so I could see the excuse given to those poor mobile only backers when f2p was finally revealed. Accepting George's claim as true means that 22Cans willfully led those people on and there's no possible way to candy coat that. |
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 13, 2014 0:50:34 GMT
It was denied up until a few months ago and by then, the backers board was a ghost town. I believe most of them post on steam mainly and we have several on here as well. When we first smelled F2p, they locked quite a few threads and gave warnings for bringing up the word gems too many times, they denied it was F2p and proceeded to make one anyway.
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Post by banned on Sept 13, 2014 3:46:41 GMT
...denied it was F2p and proceeded to make one anyway. Because they are scum. |
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Post by greay on Sept 13, 2014 5:01:22 GMT
It was denied up until a few months ago and by then, the backers board was a ghost town. I believe most of them post on steam mainly and we have several on here as well. When we first smelled F2p, they locked quite a few threads and gave warnings for bringing up the word gems too many times, they denied it was F2p and proceeded to make one anyway. Out of curiosity, I head over to the backer forums... I don't doubt you by any stretch, but I did want to see exactly how they handled it (because I don't remember). Oh well. |
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 13, 2014 8:18:14 GMT
It was denied up until a few months ago and by then, the backers board was a ghost town. I believe most of them post on steam mainly and we have several on here as well. When we first smelled F2p, they locked quite a few threads and gave warnings for bringing up the word gems too many times, they denied it was F2p and proceeded to make one anyway. Out of curiosity, I head over to the backer forums... I don't doubt you by any stretch, but I did want to see exactly how they handled it (because I don't remember). Oh well. You can't pull up any threads by searching "gems". That is so sad, it is almost funny. I will check and see if I can copy and paste my warning I got from them about using the term on too many threads. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 13, 2014 9:04:21 GMT
When you say "they" locked the threads though, do you mean actual 22Cans staff or volunteer mods like Muir? The volunteer mods were lied to just as much as everyone else, but it was their unfortunate position to believe everything whole-heartedly and rightously deal out the punishments to the horrible non-believers. Muir parrots everything 22Cans tells him without question. The insistence of "there will be no gems in the PC version, never ever!" continued for the full 5 months of silence following the 1.3 release.
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 13, 2014 9:09:06 GMT
"THEY" is whoever did it. I can't say for certain if it was a mod or 22cans because I was just a lowly backer.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 13, 2014 19:02:34 GMT
They out and out said you had to have a separate key, which is one of the reasons I pledged higher, to play on PC and mobile. So by that alone they made it seem as F2P was not a factor at the time. Now only if there was some way we could prove they had other plans at the time. Then we would have them for sure. I was thinking the same thing; they essentially promised something for money and then gave it away for free. That's bait and switch. Backers questioned them every step of the way, because there were so many contradictions even then that had people constantly concerned about the direction it was heading. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 13, 2014 19:47:08 GMT
It was denied up until a few months ago and by then, the backers board was a ghost town. I believe most of them post on steam mainly and we have several on here as well. When we first smelled F2p, they locked quite a few threads and gave warnings for bringing up the word gems too many times, they denied it was F2p and proceeded to make one anyway. Out of curiosity, I head over to the backer forums... I don't doubt you by any stretch, but I did want to see exactly how they handled it (because I don't remember). Oh well. I can confirm that every attempt to search common words - like "gems" or "Godus" - in the 22Cans forum returns that response. Why would a search exclude common keywords when that's the whole purpose; to find those key words?  Eventually I managed to find some stuff; Exclusive Backers OnlySadly, you have to be a backer to access it, so any SEA players are SOL. I'll read it through and pull out what I think is relevant. Here's just a sample; Re: Reinvention = Appeal to as many people as possibleand a screen grab of just one such instance where a player mentions Gems and F2P in comments (note the date);  |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 14, 2014 2:54:04 GMT
Here's another thread where backers express their displeasure at the f2p, and how they wouldn't have backed it. BTW: If you are a backer, you'll probably notice quite a few of our members in that thread.  Are You a Fan of Peter or Not?Here's one on the first page - whom expresses being a hopeful fan, but is concerned with the f2p aspects already present; note the date.  This one - made by our very own forum host(ess) - in particular specifically states, "I would have never backed any form of F2P game ever". I'd say that's empirically undeniably plainly stated very early on (pre-steam);  Of course, we "the backers" know all this, but it's worth putting here for others to see. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 14, 2014 3:02:51 GMT
And, for now I'll just end with a nice quote from jimmyff;
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Post by Danjal on Sept 14, 2014 8:38:44 GMT
Its a safe assumption that even some the non-backers were aware of these feelings aswell. They simply didn't have access to those backer forums to provide quotes or screencaps to this up. (And that number has only increased over time.)
For almost as long as development has gone on I've seen and heard these accusations, worries and conclusions go around.
Almost always countered by the "But we're still in development, things are going to change I promise." and "If you just wait a few years, it'll be much much better!"
Now I don't know what world 22cans thinks we come from. But I have a hard time seeing such fundamental F2P mechanics becoming "better" by adding more of the same into a game. And given what we know now, contrary to a year earlier. We can safely say that 22cans has spend a year polishing up their mobile.
Rather than providing what people expected based on a salespitch.
And still, the "Just wait, it'll get better." rings hollow from the 22cans reps.
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 15, 2014 18:48:31 GMT
I went over to Steam a while back when I saw some non backers asking for info about what the backers had gone through. I told them exactly what happened. I went into as much detail as I could and made sure not to break any rules or bash anything. I did not get a warning or edited in any way. The Steam players had a right to know about it and after keeping behind the closed backers forums, which was requested early on, about the dirty laundry and game development, I felt like a fool for doing so. We were led to believe we had this special inside backer info and asked not to put any screen shots up, so mostly we did.
Once I found out, by keeping my mouth shut, people at steam were being misled like us, my floodgates opened up. Lesson learned, never agree to keep mouth shut without proof of why.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 15, 2014 19:10:45 GMT
I went over to Steam a while back when I saw some non backers asking for info about what the backers had gone through. I told them exactly what happened. I went into as much detail as I could and made sure not to break any rules or bash anything. I did not get a warning or edited in any way. The Steam players had a right to know about it and after keeping behind the closed backers forums, which was requested early on, about the dirty laundry and game development, I felt like a fool for doing so. We were led to believe we had this special inside backer info and asked not to put any screen shots up, so mostly we did. Once I found out, by keeping my mouth shut, people at steam were being misled like us, my floodgates opened up. Lesson learned, never agree to keep mouth shut without proof of why. You did the right thing, in my opinion. People have a right to know if they are being misled. Backer forums are not there to act as an insular scapegoat to hide potentially damaging activities by the company, or to hold those participating in contempt, with threat of some sort of legal choke-hold; there are certain rules about what can and cannot be shared, but when that info (actions of the company) crosses legal and ethical bounds, users have every right to protect themselves and others. The idea of closed Backer forums is supposed to be used to provide a specialised place for those privilaged (by investing/donating) to gain insight into the game and the process, prior to anyone else - and discuss it in direct contact with the developers. To expect Backers to sit in compliance, or enforce confidentiality, when they are doing something questionably egregious, would be absurdly unscrupulous. |
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 15, 2014 19:18:27 GMT
Spread the word and see where the chips may fall. The "the pruning" of the backer boards at this point is nothing but suspect too. This subjects are still very much on topic today and so none of them should have been pruned. The place has not exactly been booming for a long time either, so it was not really needed. Me thinks something is rotten in Denmark.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Sept 15, 2014 19:25:27 GMT
Me thinks something is rotten in Denmark. It's gotta be either the fish or the beer-stained beards. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 15, 2014 19:36:43 GMT
Spread the word and see where the chips may fall. The "the pruning" of the backer boards at this point is nothing but suspect too. This subjects are still very much on topic today and so none of them should have been pruned. The place has not exactly been booming for a long time either, so it was not really needed. Me thinks something is rotten in Denmark. Has there been more recent "culling" of threads, or are you simply referring to the past incidents? If so, please do speak up. I do recall, however, when they moved to the new forum originally, the "Exclusive: Backers Only" section was hidden (or somesuch) and inaccessible; which got fixed shortly after thanks to experienced users (Us) speaking up about it. Then there was some initial speculation that many threads - both public and backers - were still missing or had been deleted, though I think that turned out to be a technicality of the forum software not allowing certain archived (aged out) threads, or search engine limitations, or bad handling of the carryover (silly devs). Can't recall precisely, but it certainly wasn't very helpful in building confidence in using the Official Forums; though participation has improved somewhat over the last month or so. |
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 15, 2014 19:43:35 GMT
Spread the word and see where the chips may fall. The "the pruning" of the backer boards at this point is nothing but suspect too. This subjects are still very much on topic today and so none of them should have been pruned. The place has not exactly been booming for a long time either, so it was not really needed. Me thinks something is rotten in Denmark. Has there been more recent "culling" of threads, or are you simply referring to the past incidents? If so, please do speak up. I do recall, however, when they moved to the new forum originally, the "Exclusive: Backers Only" section was hidden (or somesuch) and inaccessible; which got fixed shortly after thanks to experienced users (Us) speaking up about it. Then there was some initial speculation that many threads - both public and backers - were still missing or had been deleted, though I think that turned out to be a technicality of the forum software allowing archived threads, or search engine limitations, or bad handling of the carryover (silly devs). I just find the whole archiving thing very convenient timing. |
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zeruelb
Junior Apprentice
Posts: 63 
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Post by zeruelb on Sept 17, 2014 6:19:37 GMT
I will start by saying "you" means 22cans and not you personally. George have you read the posts on the Alpha and Beta backers boards? The majority were quite pissed to find a game appearing mainly mobile with F2p mechanics. Also I will point out a fact you keep forgetting. We asked if this was going to be the case and was point blank LIED to about it. To be honest, i think back in KS days they did want to deliver what they promised. Then Peter woke up one day and thought "hmm, f2p it is now". So basically noone lied, they just got no fucking clue what they are doing in the first place. And they call it Iterative Design. Its like saying "I want to drive to NewYork", while you "iteratively" "plan" your route. Like, "this time im turning left. Now im Turning right. Ah, i just turn around and turn left again". You know your Goal but got no clue on how to achieve it. (and it just gets worse when you have to start your Drive from London.) |
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