Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 10:40:07 GMT
Thread Reference: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618458030685440308/Oh, look, dissatisfied customers airing their grievances in reply to the whole "Will make the PC version different, honest! Believe in us when we've lied to you numerous times over!" routine:  Naturally, when posts just go missing...:  Then after giving a warning about posting nonconstructive baiting comments, the moderator does the exact same thing (while also posting the same outdated fake rules they've been enfarcing the Steam forums with to conveniently hide from dealing with unhappy customers):  So instead of dealing with the customers, 22cans plugs their ears while going through the erasing, locking, hiding mummy's broken vase like a child, banning routine. Now instead of those customers being merely dissatisfied and a bit snarky they're likely going to become irate*, then the customer (who will likely never be a customer again) is going to spread the word to whomever they know - particularly anyone they've previously and mistakenly recommended Godus to - how much of a disaster it has become. In turn, it would likely be cementing 22cans' reputation among those who at one point actually saw reason to throw money at 22cans because of word-of-mouth, and nothing gets the attention of someone like "Remember that game I recommended to you - I TAKE THAT BACK, AVOID!" * - To which 22cans can enfarce the "don't post angry" "rule" from their fake "Steam rules" - evidenced in that they don't do anything about the "Haha, you bought into Early Access!"/those trolling the Kickstarter backers. Ironically, those "rules" also include - "Claims of Moderator abuse are not taken lightly and should be brought up to Steam Support."Instead of dealing with the developer, they now have reason to seek other remedy...by making reports to Steam about one of the Early Access problem children that helped prompt revisions to the Early Access rules. It also must be noted that the mods/PR only do this on the main forum they are trying to put forth some feeble whitewash attempt to sucker even more customers in while not being able to appropriately handle the ones they already acquired (this eventually gives the obvious impression that 22cans is undeserving of customers). If it's in the Off Topic Behind the Couch forum or Ignore the Development Around the Game forum, they don't really care as much, and so either delete posts or move the thread to suit their public narrative. Again, for a reminder:  Instead of cutting free those completely dissatisfied, giving them at least SOME reason to speak nicely about 22cans, it only appears that 22cans would rather try to hide and marginalise those they obviously don't give a damn about to antagonise their own customers even further. Was this what 22cans was looking for? If not, then 22cans needs to re-evaluate their PR strategy, because right now it's obviously aiming for fail. Would it be a bad time to note that I've also been archiving certain threads? Have a nice day. |
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Post by hardly on Apr 17, 2015 11:34:27 GMT
Thread Reference: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618458030685440308/Oh, look, dissatisfied customers airing their grievances in reply to the whole "Will make the PC version different, honest! Believe in us when we've lied to you numerous times over!" routine: Naturally, when posts just go missing...: Then after giving a warning about posting nonconstructive baiting comments, the moderator does the exact same thing (while also posting the same outdated fake rules they've been enfarcing the Steam forums with to conveniently hide from dealing with unhappy customers): So instead of dealing with the customers, 22cans plugs their ears while going through the erasing, locking, hiding mummy's broken vase like a child, banning routine. Now instead of those customers being merely dissatisfied and a bit snarky they're likely going to become irate*, then the customer (who will likely never be a customer again) is going to spread the word to whomever they know - particularly anyone they've previously and mistakenly recommended Godus to - how much of a disaster it has become. In turn, it would likely be cementing 22cans' reputation among those who at one point actually saw reason to throw money at 22cans because of word-of-mouth, and nothing gets the attention of someone like "Remember that game I recommended to you - I TAKE THAT BACK, AVOID!" * - To which 22cans can enfarce the "don't post angry" "rule" from their fake "Steam rules" - evidenced in that they don't do anything about the "Haha, you bought into Early Access!"/those trolling the Kickstarter backers. Ironically, those "rules" also include - "Claims of Moderator abuse are not taken lightly and should be brought up to Steam Support."Instead of dealing with the developer, they now have reason to seek other remedy...by making reports to Steam about one of the Early Access problem children that helped prompt revisions to the Early Access rules. It also must be noted that the mods/PR only do this on the main forum they are trying to put forth some feeble whitewash attempt to sucker even more customers in while not being able to appropriately handle the ones they already acquired (this eventually gives the obvious impression that 22cans is undeserving of customers). If it's in the Off Topic Behind the Couch forum or Ignore the Development Around the Game forum, they don't really care as much, and so either delete posts or move the thread to suit their public narrative. Again, for a reminder: Instead of cutting free those completely dissatisfied, giving them at least SOME reason to speak nicely about 22cans, it only appears that 22cans would rather try to hide and marginalise those they obviously don't give a damn about to antagonise their own customers even further. Was this what 22cans was looking for? If not, then 22cans needs to re-evaluate their PR strategy, because right now it's obviously aiming for fail. Would it be a bad time to note that I've also been archiving certain threads? Have a nice day. I love how they've twisted the steam rules that were designed to prevent abuse and bullying to disallow an incredibly wide range of commonly accepted forum behaviour. For example: Baiting - stating an opinion that somebody might disagree with Spamming - reposting evidence from somewhere else on the Internet Disagring with the OP also became baiting or some rubbish. what they should be doing as mods is asking is somebody going to be hurt emotionally if we let this go on? Not is this messy and do I need to clean it up. In their attempt to create the perfect forum they have chased away all discussion of anything interesting. Muir and Aynen are immature and overly keen. Dave is woefully inadequate for his job. I'm sorry guys but if you can't run a forum without locking/deleting every thread and having no respect from anybody in the community then you are a complete failure in your job. We had our issues with Sam and George but they were generally fair. Your gestapo approach to moderation can't be excused. |
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Apr 17, 2015 11:51:00 GMT
Honestly I just giggled at the end of it all. Muir is a complete prat, no two ways about it. I wonder what Umbra (I miss that fella) and Sam now think of the monster they unleashed on the world.
In all honestly I've disliked Muir since they first came on the scene spouting their constant brown nosing bullshit. Its so obvious that they think its a good way to get into the videogaming industry but trying to butter up the 22Cons. Thing is, I've seen the games they have produced on their sham course Train2Game and they look absolutely shit. I've friends who take actual university course in videogame design with more talent in their little finger then this deluded muppet has in their whole body
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 12:29:00 GMT
I think that the poor PR is mostly an issue of bad company policy, and while some mistakes were made previously...the current folks whose job it is to work with the public have gleefully embraced those bad practices.
While the others suffered "burnout" that Peter's "inspiration" gave reason for them to not just quit the company - but in a few cases quit game development as well.
It is probably too much to expect for those with any shred of self-respect to shoulder the burden of his lies (and keep their own sanity for long), while it must be noted again some have taken to these bad practices with much enthusiasm.
What kind of strategy is making a publicity problem even worse, unless you're going to make it obvious that you give feck-all for caring about your job?
Why would anyone want to hire that kind of incompetence or work alongside it and inherit 22cans' subscription of issues? Some articles post about those Peter "inspired" who later went on to making other notable titles - but what about all of those he's clearly damaged to prop up his own career?
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 17, 2015 12:39:54 GMT
Both Muir and Aynen were like this since the day of Alpha release, if not earlier.
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Post by militairensneuvelen on Apr 18, 2015 9:53:09 GMT
Deleted posts even vanish from my own archives.
I can understand that posts risk getting banned from view.
But actually deleting them...
They are MY records to keep, not Steam's (or some moderator) to delete.
P.S.
Thanks for archiving my post from the Steam forums
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Post by hardly on Apr 18, 2015 10:11:16 GMT
Do we know if Valve are actually ok with this level of forum manipulation and censorship? Are there other examples people are aware of? Is it worth writing to valve about this rather than our usual complaints about refunds?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 18, 2015 12:39:01 GMT
Deleted posts even vanish from my own archives. I can understand that posts risk getting banned from view. But actually deleting them... They are MY records to keep, not Steam's (or some moderator) to delete. P.S. Thanks for archiving my post from the Steam forums You might want to consider making screenshots of the pages you want to archive instead. There are browser addons that make the job easy. I think for Firefox there's one called Fireshot. If you have an Imgur account or something similar you can upload those screenshots for online storage and easily embed them in whatever webpage you like, for example in this forum. I'd be happy to create a forum section where users can get their own subforums where they can post what they want and be their own moderators too. If there is any interest for it of course. |
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Post by mindless on Apr 18, 2015 13:06:59 GMT
Deleted posts even vanish from my own archives. I can understand that posts risk getting banned from view. But actually deleting them... They are MY records to keep, not Steam's (or some moderator) to delete. P.S. Thanks for archiving my post from the Steam forums You might want to consider making screenshots of the pages you want to archive instead. There are browser addons that make the job easy. I think for Firefox there's one called Fireshot. If you have an Imgur account or something similar you can upload those screenshots for online storage and easily embed them in whatever webpage you like, for example in this forum. I'd be happy to create a forum section where users can get their own subforums where they can post what they want and be their own moderators too. If there is any interest for it of course. Take notes Steam Mods, this is how you should handle a community, by being supportive and offering useful feedback, going so far as offering to customise the forum to be accommodating to their needs. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 18, 2015 16:14:18 GMT
You might want to consider making screenshots of the pages you want to archive instead. There are browser addons that make the job easy. I think for Firefox there's one called Fireshot. If you have an Imgur account or something similar you can upload those screenshots for online storage and easily embed them in whatever webpage you like, for example in this forum. I'd be happy to create a forum section where users can get their own subforums where they can post what they want and be their own moderators too. If there is any interest for it of course. Take notes Steam Mods, this is how you should handle a community, by being supportive and offering useful feedback, going so far as offering to customise the forum to be accommodating to their needs. I figured "why not". So I created a sub forum specifically for members to have their own little slice of heaven. Members who want a piece need only send me a private message and then wait until I get around to reading it and take action upon it. Drop me a line whoever is interested. Let's see how this rolls. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 20:40:08 GMT
Do we know if Valve are actually ok with this level of forum manipulation and censorship? Are there other examples people are aware of? Is it worth writing to valve about this rather than our usual complaints about refunds? Funny that you should mention this. While VALVe are usually giving the line that however a developer moderates a forum is up to them, if it becomes enough of a mess Steam Community Moderators can and will step in. According to the fake rules posted and still used by 22cans*, they fully invite you to report them to VALVe: Such as when a "moderator" issues "warnings" for doing the same thing they do right after, as part of the warning, especially when the other "moderator" invites reporting for trolling: For accusations of trolling use the reporting feature. Don't confront someone you feel is trolling. Don't bite every piece of bait. Just report it. While he posts stuff like: Personally, I don't think it ended up being a mobile game, as it hasn't 'ended up' at all. It's still very much in progress. Much of what you can see now in the current version is subject to change. I've seen some of the incoming changes myself, but I can't go into detail about it. (NDA) The reason I didn't speak up in this thread is because it tends to simply turn into an 'is not!' 'is too!' kind of thing between those who do think the game will change and those who don't. So I try to stick to just moderating. If we were to take Aynen and Muir's direction seriously, we would be making reports on every one of their posts, especially when Aynen brings up that NDA crap that derailed the thread so he could pitch it into the "Off Topic" forum. (WARNING: DO NOT ACTUALLY REPORT THEM UPON THEIR OWN INVITES - THEY WILL GET PISSY**)
We would also have to report Dave: Then isn't this thread going a bit off topic? Considering that this topic was about what's happening to this that game and now we've moved on to the company and NDA's? I don't want to lock this thread, so can we keep it this thread on topic and If you must talk about the company and NDA's, please start a new thread in the correct sub forum. Twice: If you seriously expect people to buy what otherwise appears to be a gold brick, detail those features. In-depth world editor Ability to create your own levels Combat on Opt-In Raise land And everyones favorite, the The Pit of DoomProvide details for this claim as well, because this claim has been made before...and yet the PC and Mobile versions are now quite similar. The Combat on Opt-In will be the first major change to the game, then we've got Fabs' top secret work before he left hint hint.But once we've got Combat implement and fully working we'll be moving on to the next feature. The whole "seriously, we're working on a PC version" has been one giant devtroll, especially when it is used to antagonise those in the Early Access "transparent development" that 22cans has routinely lied about as well. Dave also declined to clarify if the combat was PC-only, after having claimed it as part of PC development. It did take a few months of asking before 22cans could finally admit - in the main forum as well - exactly how little difference there was in the PC version (but it will change, just trust us to be honest for the first time in our entire careers!) While you are at it, you can probably report them for misrepresenting the load of weapons-grade arsepull they use as "Steam rules" so that VALVe will step in about it - since 22cans is blaming "Steam rules" for their bad moderation and devtrolling. Here is the article 22cans calls "Steam rules" (the silliness is shown when they enfarce upon a section called "Unwritten Rules of Conduct"): steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=143962136Here are the real Steam posting rules: support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810They can't even be honest about that, using it to cover up their dishonestly all elsewhere upon Steam. They also look pretty thick for confusing the two while expecting others to do the same. At least Chucklefish, a bunch of industry amateurs, can do a better job of recognising what are the real rules. Yeah, I just said something nice about Chucklefish, only because 22cans looks that much worse off for some of the utterly newbie mistakes under their belt that they're trying to keep under their hat, and so look like they have their heads up their own arse as a result. Dissatisfied customers discussing the state of the game are now again "Off Topic" like discussing movies, sports, or what you had to eat like some of the developer updates: Disappointed I bought this game a while back, I was so pleased with where it was going and how it was being made. I was happy that the developers were releasing updates and telling us their plans. Now it is a mobile game... wtf? I paid way more than 5 dollars for this ♥♥♥♥ing game and now it is a free mobile game? I think we should get our money back for you dicking us around (Is it any wonder that some folks are considering English business to be scummy when they think they do not have to be the least bit honest when they make a contract?) * - steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618453594744323157/ (The guide linked to is outdated as hell, since it implies that Muir and Aynen are Steam Community Moderators and not just a couple of disposable fanboys.) ** - One of the fun parts about having traveled the world - using one word can have so many different meanings depending upon the local vernacular, and in this case all of them would fit.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 21:16:11 GMT
"It's only covered by the NDA when it conveniently suits us" confirmed:  steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/6/618459405716458325/Of course, since the following post didn't follow the public narrative 22cans desires, though it mentions the game's design and gameplay (making it "on topic" for their quirky forum standards) it did make mention of the Kickstarter and 22cans, so it obviously went "Off Topic" as if it were discussing movies and so had to be deleted:  (In reply to: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618459405715416361/ ) I would like to know what creative lies 22cans have to offer about why that was deleted. |
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arryu
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Post by arryu on Apr 19, 2015 16:38:06 GMT
You can always report their profiles instead of their posts. I know for a fact that if you report a moderator in their own forums they're the ones that deal with the report. I'm sure if enough people have problems valve will take notice. I've already reported muir a couple of times.
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Apr 20, 2015 8:20:58 GMT
Its funny really 22Cans have royally fucked themselves with regards to the moderators. If they ever wanted to get rid of those two morons they would be completely unable to find replacements due to how badly they've poisoned their own well. I still miss Umbra. He actively tried to maintain the peace instead of the constant bullshit of "trust me, I've seen it but I can't talk about it" that the Tweedle's keep spouting.
Aynen may be a complete douche and arsehole but at least he's not trying to brown nose his way into the gaming industry. In that regards it makes him slightly more trustworthy that Muir... (Everyone look! I said something positive about that tosser)
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Aron
Master
Posts: 125
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
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Post by Aron on Apr 20, 2015 22:37:39 GMT
Do we know if Valve are actually ok with this level of forum manipulation and censorship? Are there other examples people are aware of? Is it worth writing to valve about this rather than our usual complaints about refunds? no valve is not ok with this cause of this they deactivatet the Option to edit Posts for all steam moderators |
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Post by hardly on Apr 20, 2015 22:50:26 GMT
Do we know if Valve are actually ok with this level of forum manipulation and censorship? Are there other examples people are aware of? Is it worth writing to valve about this rather than our usual complaints about refunds? no valve is not ok with this cause of this they deactivatet the Option to edit Posts for all steam moderators Just for Godus or in all forums? |
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Post by mindless on Apr 20, 2015 23:54:35 GMT
its all the forums
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Post by militairensneuvelen on Apr 21, 2015 8:34:29 GMT
I learned today that personal insults towards Mods means a month long ban.
:/
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Post by hardly on Apr 21, 2015 8:37:40 GMT
I learned today that personal insults towards Mods means a month long ban. :/ Lol tell us what exactly you said. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 21, 2015 9:14:24 GMT
I learned today that personal insults towards Mods means a month long ban. :/ In fairness, personal insults against anyone is blatantly against the rules. |
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