Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 13:34:52 GMT
Aynen, for VALVe's own reference, could you cite the actual Steam Community Rule you think is being violated? EDIT, to put this into context:  I was warned for "spamming" when I had posted a quote of the new Steam Early Access Rules in more than one thread in context to the discussion at the time. Then I was again warned for "spamming" when you threw a snit over a video link being posted in an inconvenient place because it didn't fit your desired public narrative. At no time was I warned about "rage posting" according to your fake "Steam rules" even though it is obvious that I really wasn't just a bit ago. Yes, I can get lengthy, but if you expect anyone but your pet troll to believe your reasons, you're really stretching credibility. Still. So who are you trying to fool while acting as a company liability?
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arryu
Senior Apprentice
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Post by arryu on Apr 27, 2015 17:53:16 GMT
Anyen, if you think that is rage posting you need to get your head out of your ass and go look at some YouTube comments.
And while you're at it, can you explain why the person who has been continually and OBVIOUSLY baiting those who have problems with the game **WHO DOESN'T EVEN OWN THE GAME AND HAS ADMITTED TO BEING THERE ONLY TO WATCH DRAMA UNFOLD IN THE SAME THREAD YOU BANNED MANDRAKE FROM** has not has so much as a "hey, cut it out" said to him? Other than the fact that he is arguing for 22cans, I mean.
On a slightly more serious note, can you PLEASE give us one GOOD, tangible reason why you are still invested in this project that we can look at and say "Yeah, I get it. I see why someone would still be on board here after all....this."
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arryu
Senior Apprentice
Posts: 80
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Post by arryu on Apr 27, 2015 19:32:21 GMT
You know what? I'm actually going to try to take action and get in touch with a steam official. This has gone on long enough.
If you personally have solid evidence of some of the things muir and anyen have done to abuse their privilege as moderators then compile it here. I have been in contact with multiple steam officials and will be discussing the issue soon.
Evidence of things such as:
Shady warning/bans
posts being moved/deleted without warning or adequate reason
citing rules which do not apply to warning/bans
enforcing rules and claiming them to be steam policy
bias on who is and is not warned/banned
any other issues you have had that seem irresponsible use of power
would be of great help to improve the forums for those of us who simply wish to voice an opinion or state a fact without threat of banishment.
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Post by hardly on Apr 27, 2015 19:35:20 GMT
I'm not going to get into the whole Aynen versus Mandrake thing right now. However I thought it was ridiculous that Muir locked this thread: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618460171318648222/Fraggle and I were having a civil debate that we were enjoying and because someone asked for it to be locked he came along and kicked over our sand castle. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 27, 2015 20:18:15 GMT
I'm not going to get into the whole Aynen versus Mandrake thing right now. However I thought it was ridiculous that Muir locked this thread: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618460171318648222/Fraggle and I were having a civil debate that we were enjoying and because someone asked for it to be locked he came along and kicked over our sand castle. I like your metaphore. It's civil and perfectly reflects the childishness of the moderation. |
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Post by mindless on Apr 27, 2015 20:20:01 GMT
I'd say pretty much just point them at any thread in the off topic section. Because all of the threads there are miss categorised. Off Topic to any sane human implies topics that have nothing to do with Godus or 22 cans, but the threads in all cases are on topic, the mods are using this to stifle open and honest debate. The most recent case being the thread ( What happened to this game?) by "Cute Little Girl". This is a clear cut and blatant miss use of their moderator powers. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 27, 2015 20:20:25 GMT
You know what? I'm actually going to try to take action and get in touch with a steam official. This has gone on long enough. If you personally have solid evidence of some of the things muir and anyen have done to abuse their privilege as moderators then compile it here. I have been in contact with multiple steam officials and will be discussing the issue soon. Evidence of things such as: Shady warning/bans posts being moved/deleted without warning or adequate reason citing rules which do not apply to warning/bans enforcing rules and claiming them to be steam policy bias on who is and is not warned/banned any other issues you have had that seem irresponsible use of power would be of great help to improve the forums for those of us who simply wish to voice an opinion or state a fact without threat of banishment. Someone just posted some evidence on the open board. Don't have the link coz I'm on mobile now and I can't be arsed to fiddle and figure this thing out. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 27, 2015 20:25:28 GMT
I'm not going to get into the whole Aynen versus Mandrake thing right now. However I thought it was ridiculous that Muir locked this thread: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618460171318648222/Fraggle and I were having a civil debate that we were enjoying and because someone asked for it to be locked he came along and kicked over our sand castle. I like your metaphore. It's civil and perfectly reflects the childishness of the moderation. To be fair "TotallyTim" the OP owner requested the lock to shut FraggleRock up as far as I can see. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 27, 2015 20:31:28 GMT
I like your metaphore. It's civil and perfectly reflects the childishness of the moderation. To be fair "TotallyTim" the OP owner requested the lock to shut FraggleRock up as far as I can see. They probably asked totallytim to request the lock.  Wouldn't put it past them. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 20:43:50 GMT
Anyen, if you think that is rage posting you need to get your head out of your ass and go look at some YouTube comments. And while you're at it, can you explain why the person who has been continually and OBVIOUSLY baiting those who have problems with the game **WHO DOESN'T EVEN OWN THE GAME AND HAS ADMITTED TO BEING THERE ONLY TO WATCH DRAMA UNFOLD IN THE SAME THREAD YOU BANNED MANDRAKE FROM** has not has so much as a "hey, cut it out" said to him? Other than the fact that he is arguing for 22cans, I mean. You mean the one for which Aynen asked for help doing his job, then has been mucking it up spectacularly when people actually did so?  Also, 22cans uses a guide that conveniently lists a bunch of rules that they have been passing as "Steam rules" for some time, continually insulting the intelligence of Steam users (which I suppose I should report them for playing thick?): steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618453594744323157/Unwritten rules are considered a subject of decorum and not really enforceable...hence unwritten. But here is something that IS in those "rules" which VALVe will care about if the abuse is enough - "Claims of Moderator abuse are not taken lightly and should be brought up to Steam Support." Sometimes Steam will bring in their own moderators, who will then go through all of 22cans cute little act... |
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Post by hardly on Apr 27, 2015 20:44:25 GMT
I like your metaphore. It's civil and perfectly reflects the childishness of the moderation. To be fair "TotallyTim" the OP owner requested the lock to shut FraggleRock up as far as I can see. He did but does that mean you should lock the thread just because he asks? Nothing against Tim for asking and I understand why he did but I think Muir should have said something to the effect of "if you don't like the conversation don't read it." It was getting old anyway so I'm not bitter about it, I just think locking treads because they are messy or long winded is stupid. I wonder in what Fraggle thinks about the situation. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 21:18:23 GMT
To be fair "TotallyTim" the OP owner requested the lock to shut FraggleRock up as far as I can see. He did but does that mean you should lock the thread just because he asks? Nothing against Tim for asking and I understand why he did but I think Muir should have said something to the effect of "if you don't like the conversation don't read it." It was getting old anyway so I'm not bitter about it, I just think locking treads because they are messy or long winded is stupid. I wonder in what Fraggle thinks about the situation. Who cares what Fraggle thinks? The only reason to respond to that muppet is to debunk their misinformation that seems given providence by the moderators and 22cans' PR. If you look back through their post history, which the 22cans "moderators" have been invited to do...upon their own statement about reporting someone trolling, it would have been obvious that FraggleRock is only there to wank schadenfreude upon customers who bought into a product that did not match advertisements, even in the Steam store page. Not just buyer beware, but gloating and mocking at those who fell for someone's con, blaming the customer for having bought a dodgy product. They don't have the game on Steam, they obviously haven't played the mobile version (or have and have been using its obvious awfulness as trolling bait), and have generally been there to help 22cans' horrible PR become even worse. Usually, most developers - upon reaching publicity rock bottom - would put aside the shovel and have a think. 22cans did just that...then being the "daring innovators" they are at cloning other mobile microtransaction mechanics, proceeded to order in the heavy excavation machinery. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 27, 2015 22:03:09 GMT
To be fair "TotallyTim" the OP owner requested the lock to shut FraggleRock up as far as I can see. He did but does that mean you should lock the thread just because he asks? Nothing against Tim for asking and I understand why he did but I think Muir should have said something to the effect of "if you don't like the conversation don't read it." It was getting old anyway so I'm not bitter about it, I just think locking treads because they are messy or long winded is stupid. I wonder in what Fraggle thinks about the situation. I only pointed it out as I have seen it before when the OP owner requests a thread locked the mods oblige. A lot of there other interpretations raise questions but I think this one is pretty standard. Muir should of told you to create you own thread to continue your discussion. |
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Post by greay on Apr 27, 2015 23:58:59 GMT
This is why I gave up on posting on the Steam forums.
Well, that, and the main reason I posted was in the hopes of helping guide development of the game, and once it became clear that that wasn't ever going to happen, I sorta lost interest. But the toxic environment and completely batshit PR / moderation made me never want to go back.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 0:37:38 GMT
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 28, 2015 3:05:02 GMT
This is why I gave up on posting on the Steam forums. Well, that, and the main reason I posted was in the hopes of helping guide development of the game, and once it became clear that that wasn't ever going to happen, I sorta lost interest. But the toxic environment and completely batshit PR / moderation made me never want to go back. That rings true for me also, plus a thread asking simple questions around what 22cans was planning for Godus when the reduced the team and GK and Matthew left, I had enough, but the mood was lighter here on proboards so I stuck around here. |
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Post by hardly on Apr 28, 2015 4:02:19 GMT
This is why I gave up on posting on the Steam forums. Well, that, and the main reason I posted was in the hopes of helping guide development of the game, and once it became clear that that wasn't ever going to happen, I sorta lost interest. But the toxic environment and completely batshit PR / moderation made me never want to go back. That rings true for me also, plus a thread asking simple questions around what 22cans was planning for Godus when the reduced the team and GK and Matthew left, I had enough, but the mood was lighter here on proboards so I stuck around here. My first post was something like "click, click, click." Back then I was naive enough to think if enough people joked about the interface problems they would be fixed. Little did I know they were an intentional part of the design. This is the tragedy of GODUS, it doubled down on anything we complained about. |
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heggers
Master
Posts: 203
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by heggers on Apr 28, 2015 8:46:21 GMT
He did but does that mean you should lock the thread just because he asks? Nothing against Tim for asking and I understand why he did but I think Muir should have said something to the effect of "if you don't like the conversation don't read it." It was getting old anyway so I'm not bitter about it, I just think locking treads because they are messy or long winded is stupid. I wonder in what Fraggle thinks about the situation. I only pointed it out as I have seen it before when the OP owner requests a thread locked the mods oblige. A lot of there other interpretations raise questions but I think this one is pretty standard. Muir should of told you to create you own thread to continue your discussion. I've seen instances of where the OP has requested the thread be deleted but the mod (Aynen in this instance) just locked it instead. Classic example of mods doing whatever the hell they want really |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 28, 2015 10:03:33 GMT
Believe it or not, Muir is actually way better now than he was back when he first started this job. Back in 2013 he was regularly editing people's posts simply to remove sections of text where they disagreed with him, sometimes in such a hamfisted way it entirely changed the meaning of the message. This was often followed by locking the thread, removing the original poster's ability to edit with a correction.
He genuinely could not understand why people took exception to this, and threw a hissy fit in which he said he'd stop doing any mod actions whatsoever and see how we liked it. In fact it was completely fine, and to his credit he did exactly as he promised and stopped moving/deleting/editing posts entirely for a while. I'm not sure why he's decided things need to go back to the way they were. The allocation of most threads to 'off topic' is truly baffling, and other boards are blatantly being used to keep undesirable conversations out of sight. This really just makes the problem worse, because people start indignantly demanding to know why their posts are being moved, leading to move locks/moves/warnings.
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Post by totallytim on Apr 28, 2015 13:55:01 GMT
I'm not going to get into the whole Aynen versus Mandrake thing right now. However I thought it was ridiculous that Muir locked this thread: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618460171318648222/Fraggle and I were having a civil debate that we were enjoying and because someone asked for it to be locked he came along and kicked over our sand castle. I'm sorry if I disturbed your debate. It wasn't my intention to inconvenience you in that thread. But as far as I can tell Fraggile was just trying to bait out responses for the sake of arguing and that has already lead to mods issuing out warnings and bans. I felt it was an appropriate way to call him out without having to directly engage with him. Again, sorry for any inconveniences I might have caused you. They probably asked totallytim to request the lock. Wouldn't put it past them. That hurts  |
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