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Post by Danjal on Oct 15, 2014 8:00:14 GMT
Yeah people put off procreation decisions during a recession for sure but if you compare poor countries to developed countries I think you'll find poor countries have higher fertility. Also I'm going to go out on a limb and say without evidence that there is probably a correlation between poor neighbourhoods and higher fertility in developed countries. So I think it's safe to say that if you create a slum in GODUS with people packed cheek to jowl the little godusites will breed like rabbits. Of course Im talking about present day fertility, I suspect back in the day fertility was much higher across the board. As was infant mortality. Packing people cheek to jowl would result in diseases if not epidemics that would decimate the population quite rapidly when taken too far. Just FYI - I do think that follower death is one of their best ways to control the ever growing population in-game. |
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Post by hardly on Oct 15, 2014 8:00:51 GMT
Let us not forget about common sense and birth control. If you are smart enough to be careful you can still spend your days banging and be 90 percent protected from the babies you cannot afford. If you are not, then that would tell the tale. Children are taught sex ed in most USA schools in 7th grade. Which is why variable is birthrates and not sexual activity... I think if Godus were to show the number of followers that were sexually active but using preventative methods we'd be looking at a whole different layer of detail. ;p Banning birthcontrol would be an interesting late game commandment... |
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Post by hardly on Oct 15, 2014 8:04:29 GMT
Yeah people put off procreation decisions during a recession for sure but if you compare poor countries to developed countries I think you'll find poor countries have higher fertility. Also I'm going to go out on a limb and say without evidence that there is probably a correlation between poor neighbourhoods and higher fertility in developed countries. So I think it's safe to say that if you create a slum in GODUS with people packed cheek to jowl the little godusites will breed like rabbits. Of course Im talking about present day fertility, I suspect back in the day fertility was much higher across the board. As was infant mortality. Packing people cheek to jowl would result in diseases if not epidemics that would decimate the population quite rapidly when taken too far. Just FYI - I do think that follower death is one of their best ways to control the ever growing population in-game. If they could build intelligence into the game somehow you could create a tension between having a lot of dumb, poor, uneducated people who don't live very long and having a small number of educated, well cared for people. That way it would be a valid play style to have a mass of unclothed hungry minions or alternativey have a smaller number of educated erudite followers. |
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Post by Danjal on Oct 15, 2014 8:22:53 GMT
There are simple measurements they could implement to approach a similar situation.
Unhappiness vs happiness is the start.
The followup would be food and food variety, more variety and an abundance of food would affect happiness in a positive way - shortages on the other hand would cause famines and mortality rates, thereby not only causing negative happiness due to hunger, but also a downward spiral due to deaths.
Ultimately that would level out untill an equilibrium is reached and you reach a stable population count.
Then we get desires, its easy enough to graph a desire for followers - more variety in housing and larger housing would be desired by specific groups of followers. Others would be satisfied with different variables.
After that you start looking into how diminishing that free will affects the followers. Afterall, we're a god - we don't *have* to bow to their whims, but they do have free will so if we force them there are consequences we may not intend.
You don't have to go deep AI to create a semblance of intelligent simulation.
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Post by Qetesh on Oct 15, 2014 8:37:58 GMT
Let us not forget about common sense and birth control. If you are smart enough to be careful you can still spend your days banging and be 90 percent protected from the babies you cannot afford. If you are not, then that would tell the tale. Children are taught sex ed in most USA schools in 7th grade. I thought they taught that sex was a crime against Jesus and that if you have sex you will get pregnant and die.  |
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Post by Qetesh on Oct 15, 2014 8:39:32 GMT
Which is why variable is birthrates and not sexual activity... I think if Godus were to show the number of followers that were sexually active but using preventative methods we'd be looking at a whole different layer of detail. ;p Banning birthcontrol would be an interesting late game commandment... This would bring to the mind the question of competing religions and beliefs too. One group of followers could believe it is a sin and another might be teaching for it's benefits and thus they would innately have a growing divide between the two factions. |
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Post by hardly on Oct 15, 2014 8:42:37 GMT
The reason I'm pushing this fertility issue is fertility has the potential to be a valid strategy either way - high fertility/poverty will give you lots of people who are less well off/educated who could be made to work/fight while low fertility/highly educated populace could be designed to give you an equally good opposite benefit (faster tech progress?) different units that you have fewer but fight better? Mages? I dont know. The point I'm trying to get across with spitballing this is any decision in GODUS should have viable or strategy either way. So if I decide I want to be the God of slums in GODUS then that should unlock benefits that I value. If I want to nurture and care for me people by showering them with luxuries and providing them with abundant residents then that should provide something other than just happiness.
Happiness doesn't work by itself. In current GODUS I can be a bad God, kill the astari and work my people into the ground. What do I get for that? Not much other than I don't have to worry about the astari. If I'm a good god the astari join me and I get what? Happy people who produce more belief?
I really think my idea of three kinds of belief (good, neutral and evil belief) assists with this. Whatever you do - good or evil - you get belief in two of the three kinds which means you can use two of the three types of powers. This means there is no right decision. It's the type of system Jedi knight and such used with Jedi and Sith powers.
If you become a bad good you can mistreat your people, you get lots of slaves who work for you in huge numbers and you get aggressive attacking powers that you can use. If you are a good god you get some benefits I haven't really thought of and more nurturing/defensive powers.
Perhaps followers could have experience and get better at jobs the longer they live and the longer they do them. So if you keep burt the miner alive for 70 GODUS years he is mining 10 times as fast as John the miner who only lived to 30 GODUS years. That way if say danjal had a good approach with happy long lived people he could get the same production from 10 people as I could from one. Same result but different strategies.
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Post by hardly on Oct 15, 2014 8:45:04 GMT
Child labour would be another interesting commandment.
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Post by hardly on Oct 15, 2014 8:45:49 GMT
With all this talk of slavery, birth control and child labour I'm wondering does GODUS have a age rating?
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Post by hardly on Oct 15, 2014 8:47:57 GMT
Banning birthcontrol would be an interesting late game commandment... This would bring to the mind the question of competing religions and beliefs too. One group of followers could believe it is a sin and another might be teaching for it's benefits and thus they would innately have a growing divide between the two factions. I like the idea of splinter tribes. If you change the commandments some of your people could refuse and break off and worship a splinter religion kind of like Protestantism and Catholicism. You could then send you people to subjegate them. Being able to have an inquisition would also be cool with crucifixitions and stuff. |
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Post by Qetesh on Oct 15, 2014 8:52:29 GMT
This would bring to the mind the question of competing religions and beliefs too. One group of followers could believe it is a sin and another might be teaching for it's benefits and thus they would innately have a growing divide between the two factions. I like the idea of splinter tribes. If you change the commandments some of your people could refuse and break off and worship a splinter religion kind of like Protestantism and Catholicism. You could then send you people to subjegate them. Being able to have an inquisition would also be cool with crucifixitions and stuff. It could also really be about more obscure differences as well. Such as, this tribe worships fire but the other is in fear of it and so the one tribe would have a distinct advantage over the other one. |
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Post by Danjal on Oct 15, 2014 9:12:36 GMT
Child labour would be another interesting commandment. It would - though how would you measure it? (What are the gains and what are the 'losses' so to speak.) With all this talk of slavery, birth control and child labour I'm wondering does GODUS have a age rating? Not yet =P And for that very reason I would not be surprised if they would avoid these topics alltogether... This would bring to the mind the question of competing religions and beliefs too. One group of followers could believe it is a sin and another might be teaching for it's benefits and thus they would innately have a growing divide between the two factions. I like the idea of splinter tribes. If you change the commandments some of your people could refuse and break off and worship a splinter religion kind of like Protestantism and Catholicism. You could then send you people to subjegate them. Being able to have an inquisition would also be cool with crucifixitions and stuff. I also like the concept of splinter tribes with specific ideals or visions. I like the idea of splinter tribes. If you change the commandments some of your people could refuse and break off and worship a splinter religion kind of like Protestantism and Catholicism. You could then send you people to subjegate them. Being able to have an inquisition would also be cool with crucifixitions and stuff. It could also really be about more obscure differences as well. Such as, this tribe worships fire but the other is in fear of it and so the one tribe would have a distinct advantage over the other one. If anything, that would be the "safe bet" to start with without causing a moral debate. Afterall, a tribe that worships fire isn't that big of a problem whereas a tribe that venerates child labour and forbids women from working would be. Ultimately though, its the concept that counts, having tribes that either break off from your own civilization and have to be dealt with (either by crushing them or by integrating their beliefs into your own cohesive society) - and encountering native tribes that have their own unique aspects inherent to them. I think that if you look at Endless Legend for example, they allow you to incorporate minor factions into your empire and gain bonuses depending on how many of their villages you have converted. A similar element could play a part within Godus. Where a more diverse empire may take on certain benefits, at the cost of losing out on other area's. But a "pure" empire would have other tactical or mechanical advantages (with its own drawbacks). Adding to a diversity in gameplay. The key breaking point? Peter wants Godus to be a "single endless playthrough" kinda game. Which means that if he adds tactical decisions, people are going to "make mistakes" and want to start over after they learned the better combinations... |
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Post by Danjal on Oct 17, 2014 6:27:08 GMT
Here are two interesting video's regarding retention of information in games (and other media) and how that relates to game mechanics.
Something important to keep in the backs of our minds with regard to Godus, and its apparent lack of interesting mechanics.
Both interesting for 22cans employees aswell as regular board readers.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 17, 2014 16:56:11 GMT
With all this talk of slavery, birth control and child labour I'm wondering does GODUS have a age rating? Nah, all you need for this ride is a disposable income and time. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 19, 2014 2:46:14 GMT
Yeah, I'm about over this nonsense.Peter hatched a scheme to make a fortune by driving up to Scotland, buying a bunch of salmon, and then returning to sell it to local restaurants at a fantastic profit. It was only on the way home, after spending his savings, that he realized he had forgotten about refrigeration. Peter Molyneux - 1980s Peter hatched a scheme to make a fortune by going to Kickstarter, flaunting his portfolio, and then monetizing a new god game through free to play for a fantastic profit. It was only after releasing to iOS and spending backers' money, that he realized he had forgotten about making any semblance of gameplay. Peter Molyneux - 2000s Some things never change, huh?
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Post by Danjal on Oct 19, 2014 5:02:20 GMT
Don't be so negative, its not like Peter did this out of malice!
If we just wait a bit longer and give him a little bit more time.
If we just remain positive and patient, and not think too much of focus too much on the iOS release and its freemium elements.
If we just overlook the fact that we paid $20 for a freemium iOS title.
And if we hope beyond hopes that Peter somehow, finds the time and motivation to make the game better.
Then it'll all be fine.
And if not - well we paid for a Peter Molyneux game right, so thats what we got.
All those promises? Nah, they're just "marketing speak" - everyone knows marketing speak isn't telling the truth!
Everyone knows advertisements do not accurately represent the product that is being sold!
Just ask Aynen and his 'industry veteran' buddies.
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Post by Qetesh on Oct 19, 2014 9:26:37 GMT
TBH, I see his videos and the phrase that comes to my mind is scatterbrain. This is not meant to be an insult, but I keep coming back to it. He seems quite disorganized in his thinking and very much all over the map. Is this an act? Does he have a filter for saying what he is thinking?
I ask because my daughter is bi-poloar and she has all these same attributes. She also leans towards the artistic side of creativity and when things don't go her way she would have no problem reverting and calling somebody a bully. IDK, but I really am starting to wonder if Peter is the same as her. One difference is her childlike purity, she would never take money for something she did not intend to provide. All PM has to do at this point is make THAT game.
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Post by Danjal on Oct 19, 2014 11:08:42 GMT
TBH, I see his videos and the phrase that comes to my mind is scatterbrain. This is not meant to be an insult, butt I keep coming back to it. He seems quite disorganized in his thinking and very much all over the map. Is this an act? Does he have a filter for saying what he is thinking? I ask because my daughter is bi-poloar and she has all these same attributes. She also leans towards the artistic side of creativity and when things don't go her way she would have no problem reverting and calling somebody a bully. IDK, but I really am starting to wonder if Peter is the same as her. One difference is her childlike purity, she would never take money for something she did not intend to provide. All PM has to do at this point is make THAT game. I've made the same observation before - a variety of attributes that can be contributed to autism or similar such 'conditions'. While it is entirely true that either its an act (pure psychological manipulation on his part), it seems unlikely for someone to literally go so far as to live the act. It truely would not suprise me if something similar would stand at the root of this social barrier. Knowing full-well that some of the greatest minds in human history, people who invented and/or created wonderful and marvelous things. Had some 'issues' when it comes down to it. So I wouldn't say its necessarily an insult (even though human society just *loves* to look down on people who have something 'wrong' with them.) But his singleminded focus, his flights of fancy, his poor social skills and inability (non unwillingness, he simply doesn't see that what he says or does insults people...) to observe social conduct - the fact that he's pretty much stuck in his own little world and responds poorly to outsiders breaking his pattern. As many have pointed out, what the community wants isn't some lofty unattainable goal. Its for 22cans to create the game they once set out to make. And apparently we've become a society where companies no longer have to do that. Where they can just do whatever they want and as long as the 'majority' of people things that the results are adequate enough to not take notice, not a damned thing will be done about it. Talk about how certain base 'promises' are not met and you'll be confronted with either "But everyone knows that thats marketing speak and not a realistic goal so they shouldn't be expected to fullfill it." or "But they're still in development, if we just wait a bit longer perhaps things will change!" If you point out legal recourse that they indeed ARE required to accurately advertise their product then Early Access is the bulletproof shield of choice - taking advantage of technicalities. Its just ridiculous. |
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Post by Qetesh on Oct 19, 2014 16:37:34 GMT
If he were bi-polar. I would have to feel very torn. Their is an innate nature of medical "self-centric" behavior that would explain much, but yet there is still the matter of good faith promises needing to be fulfilled. I have always taught her and her doctors agreed that the diagnosis can be an explanation but never an excuse and repercussions were still valid and to be expected.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 20, 2014 0:38:23 GMT
Trying to dig up some stuff. Good times with the past.Development sprints' various results are for Pete & co. not us! (Which explains why my request for weekly dev logs was confusing to them. I was asking for them to give us as much info as Peter, but "they don't work that way" in regards to us.) Hey! I managed to find this "old" post! Neat. AHA! Found exactly what I was after. Apparently they decided to overlook my next post expanding on the fact that I'd just be open with the sprint's contents more than otherwise, back to first point, we just don't get to see that stuff for "reasons." |
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Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
