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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 18, 2014 13:59:16 GMT
The majority of pre-release hype I've seen surrounding Sleeping Dogs was that it would be a GTA style game with martial arts combat and plentiful side missions. ... So yes... When Sleeping Dogs is made out to be something akin to the quality of GTA IV, but in reality is a mere shade of that. I stand firm in my claim that it *OBJECTIVELY* has far less content than it was made out to have. Can you provide any specific examples of where you found this "hype" or where these claims were made? E.g. trailers, screen shots or press releases? Also, Sleeping Dogs did deliver (a) a +/- 30-hour free-roaming, open-world experience, (b) martial arts melée combat and (c) 34 separate side-missions (not including drug busts, optional cop missions, optional races, random world events, various collectibles etc.), which I'd call "plentiful" by any reasonable definition. Whether or not you think it was as honed or polished as GTA is your own, subjective opinion. It wasn't as much of a sandbox, that's for sure, but we never described it as such. Additionally, there are those who found Sleeping Dogs to be an improvement on some of GTA's own aspects, which only goes to show that your opinion is just that - opinion, not fact. My reason for shifting topic? Because you as always are picking on semantics "Oh no, we fullfilled the requirements to the letter, there is nothing you can claim otherwise." Far from picking on semantics, I'm saying it's categorically false to assert that Sleeping Dogs somehow deceived you as to its content. The fact you've "already made up your mind" just implies that you're not willing to listen to reason. |
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Post by Danjal on Nov 18, 2014 17:02:01 GMT
21 hours of content for me - INCLUDING optional side missions, races and so on.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 18, 2014 17:14:42 GMT
21 hours of content for me - INCLUDING optional side missions, races and so on. You're still avoiding answering the question, though. Please can you provide a specific example of where you found claims made by Square Enix or United Front Games that Sleeping Dogs would have "far more" content or features than that which appeared in the final release? E.g. trailers, screen shots or press releases? If not, then I'm right, you're wrong and you have to do a forfeit   |
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Post by Danjal on Nov 18, 2014 17:25:57 GMT
I don't have the exact sources, I don't keep a backlog of sites I've visited in the past to base my purchasing decisions on.
Suffice it to say, I don't care. Sleeping Dogs is *one of* the titles I've bought in the past decade that has had a direct impact on my decision to seriously doubt the quality of games coming from big developers.
Any 'trailers, screen shots or press releases' are by definition suspect since their only goal is to convince someone to purchase - rather than to inform.
In this, I don't stand on the side of developers. I don't care about your 'technicalities'. "We never said this, so you can't pin it on us."
Perhaps some sites made assumptions, perhaps people extrapolated based on information given. The fact being, I still don't think Sleeping Dogs was worth the full retail price.
And thats no 'right or wrong'.
You believe that the content was adequate and fullfilled the required promises set through PR - good on you. Enjoy your game.
I no longer buy any Square Enix game based on vague public opinion anymore. And thats all that matters to me.
And yes, I won't bother looking up those sites - because you'll simply respond with "oh but WE never said that, thats just 'some site', you clearly have the wrong sources!"
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 18, 2014 17:32:02 GMT
Danjal, strikes me the only person making "assumptions" about Sleeping Dogs is yourself, given that you've no examples to point towards and only your own feelings to prop up your argument. As it stands, the game still enjoys a high metascore - from both critics and users - as well as a solid reputation within the community at large. I'm sorry you didn't like the game all that much, but to say that... it *OBJECTIVELY* has far less content than it was made out to have. ...is simply untrue, in the sense it's a statement that can't be backed up by any facts. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Nov 18, 2014 17:37:46 GMT
I feel like every game comes out as having less content than it sounds like anyway. Devs and publishers are almost always pumping up what they have, but they can't sell you on how satisfying or how long you find it to be. We have this, this, and this and this emotionally tingly trailer, get into it now! Oh wait a sec...I don't actually enjoy any of this! What the hell, duped a-fucking-gain!
I've always found it amusing how much more interesting it is sometimes to read the descriptions of gameplay than experience the gameplay itself. It's almost always a weird double-take moment where you go, wait, how did they get that out of this?
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Post by morsealworth on Nov 18, 2014 20:19:31 GMT
In this, I don't stand on the side of developers. I don't care about your 'technicalities'. "We never said this, so you can't pin it on us." Perhaps some sites made assumptions, perhaps people extrapolated based on information given. The fact being, I still don't think Sleeping Dogs was worth the full retail price. And thats no 'right or wrong'. You believe that the content was adequate and fullfilled the required promises set through PR - good on you. Enjoy your game. I no longer buy any Square Enix game based on vague public opinion anymore. And thats all that matters to me. And yes, I won't bother looking up those sites - because you'll simply respond with "oh but WE never said that, thats just 'some site', you clearly have the wrong sources!" Wait wait wait. I'm mostly on your side here as you voiced a lot of good points, but right now you're said "We didn't get what you didn't even promise, but what we wanted you to make". And that sounds like words taken directly from mouth of a pretty lady that didn't like her present on an anniversary. |
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Post by Danjal on Nov 18, 2014 23:07:19 GMT
Wait wait wait. I'm mostly on your side here as you voiced a lot of good points, but right now you're said "We didn't get what you didn't even promise, but what we wanted you to make". And that sounds like words taken directly from mouth of a pretty lady that didn't like her present on an anniversary. Look, I don't care... George is on his crusade to prove that "The developer never promised any of that." I don't know where I read it or got the impression that the game would be any more like GTA than it turned out to be. End of story. Moral of this story? Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Especially if there is money involved. So nothing new. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Nov 19, 2014 3:32:08 GMT
 Mostly because I didn't read any of all that. Sooo... Godus; still not what we were promised. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 19, 2014 10:35:08 GMT
Look, I don't care... George is on his crusade to prove that "The developer never promised any of that." Well... yeah, very much so. I was directly responsible for all the messaging we put out for Sleeping Dogs in the immediate run-up to launch, directly post-launch and throughout the DLC cycle, so I do take assertions that we deliberately deceived our player-base or published inaccurate info quite personally. |
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Post by Qetesh on Nov 19, 2014 17:08:11 GMT
Look, I don't care... George is on his crusade to prove that "The developer never promised any of that." Well... yeah, very much so. I was directly responsible for all the messaging we put out for Sleeping Dogs in the immediate run-up to launch, directly post-launch and throughout the DLC cycle, so I do take assertions that we deliberately deceived our player-base or published inaccurate info quite personally. and how about Godus? |
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Post by Deth on Nov 19, 2014 17:49:50 GMT
I would not say George is responsible for that, well at least the original hype and promises. For towing the company line currently yes, but I can not say I remember any out and out lies from him, Disclaimer: My memory is not the best in the world and I may have forgotten any minor lies he has put out. /9->.
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Post by Qetesh on Nov 19, 2014 21:44:20 GMT
I would not say George is responsible for that, well at least the original hype and promises. For towing the company line currently yes, but I can not say I remember any out and out lies from him, Disclaimer: My memory is not the best in the world and I may have forgotten any minor lies he has put out. /9->. George was not there during Kickstarter. I was referring to his opinion on the subject regarding 22cans in general and the deception that was done during Kickstarter and pretty much ever since. I don't expect to hear an admission from a current employee of 22cans or they would face the wrath of them. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Nov 19, 2014 23:18:35 GMT
I would not say George is responsible for that, well at least the original hype and promises. For towing the company line currently yes, but I can not say I remember any out and out lies from him, Disclaimer: My memory is not the best in the world and I may have forgotten any minor lies he has put out. /9->. George was not there during Kickstarter. I was referring to his opinion on the subject regarding 22cans in general and the deception that was done during Kickstarter and pretty much ever since. I don't expect to hear an admission from a current employee of 22cans or they would face the wrath of them. "I don't think we've lied or deceived anyone so far, although we may have been slightly less clear than we had intended. The game is still in development and we aim to deliver on the features described, we don't intend to leave any of them by the wayside (though they may emerge slightly different than expected); it's simply taken longer than initially anticipated for a few of the reasons detailed in the recent Q&A videos. I regret that you feel deceived and lied to, but hopefully we can make up for that in the fullness of time." Or something along those lines. =P |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 20, 2014 9:46:18 GMT
George was not there during Kickstarter. I was referring to his opinion on the subject regarding 22cans in general and the deception that was done during Kickstarter and pretty much ever since. I don't expect to hear an admission from a current employee of 22cans or they would face the wrath of them. What Gmr Leon said, basically. Sorry for such a cop-out answer  |
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Post by Qetesh on Nov 20, 2014 12:33:41 GMT
George was not there during Kickstarter. I was referring to his opinion on the subject regarding 22cans in general and the deception that was done during Kickstarter and pretty much ever since. I don't expect to hear an admission from a current employee of 22cans or they would face the wrath of them. "I don't think we've lied or deceived anyone so far, although we may have been slightly less clear than we had intended. The game is still in development and we aim to deliver on the features described, we don't intend to leave any of them by the wayside (though they may emerge slightly different than expected); it's simply taken longer than initially anticipated for a few of the reasons detailed in the recent Q&A videos. I regret that you feel deceived and lied to, but hopefully we can make up for that in the fullness of time." Or something along those lines. =P "less clear" is an insult to our intelligence. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 21, 2014 11:44:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 12:15:57 GMT
Huh... interesting. Then there's this. |
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Post by Danjal on Nov 21, 2014 12:19:59 GMT
Huh... interesting. Then there's this.Haha, I was about to post the same from Giantbomb (I read it on IGN, but Giantbomb seems to be the source.) |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 21, 2014 12:24:33 GMT
I'd really hoped this announcement would be received a little more warmly, tbh.
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