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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 26, 2015 18:06:38 GMT
It doesn't mean they're being payed off though. Most journalists know that if they ask certain things from certain people, those people will simply no longer talk to them, so those journalists could no longer do their job. If a journalist wants to bring up a difficult issue with the person they are interviewing, they have to go about it very diplomatically, or accept that their journalistic efforts have an expiration date. This makes honest journalism, whether in games or anywhere else, quite difficult indeed. Fair point; the biasing of job performance simply to assure job security is quite prevalent in many industries... which is rather sad and unfortunate.
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Post by distraction on Jan 26, 2015 18:17:45 GMT
It doesn't mean they're being payed off though. Most journalists know that if they ask certain things from certain people, those people will simply no longer talk to them, so those journalists could no longer do their job. If a journalist wants to bring up a difficult issue with the person they are interviewing, they have to go about it very diplomatically, or accept that their journalistic efforts have an expiration date. This makes honest journalism, whether in games or anywhere else, quite difficult indeed. that goes against everything in ethics in journalism, i think the uk has this www.nuj.org.uk/about/nuj-code/ also if an journalist is important enough they wont face the issue of beng unable to ask certain questions
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Post by hardly on Jan 26, 2015 18:24:28 GMT
Missed this post by SamVT on the Godus Steam forums on the 24th. Can't say I'm surprised. Originally posted by vv FuMM: Samvt and george left by their choice as far as I know. I don't think either was pushed. SamVT has some interesting tweets about his time at 22cans if any one can be bothered to search for them. I'd really like to see some further comments from samvt about all that's been happening. The general gist of the tweets was lack of respect (I'm paraphrasing) and peter's lack of comprehension and totally ignoring his paid professionals in their area of expertise. In samvt's case the social/community and communication side of things. This is when the great silence of 2013/2014 really began. Sam was in the process of leaving just before and then shortly after this. Again this is paraphrasing and reading between some lines. If I'm wrong I'm sure sam will jump in and correct me/clear up what actually happened. Oh. Also it looks like other 22cans'ers have left the studio in the last few weeks. SamVT Yes I resigned. It was my own choice but I wanted to keep sane. There will be a time when I can comment further on my experience, but that's in the future, not right now. Let's also not forget I've been close to Peter for over 10 years but haven't spoken or seen him since I left and don't wish to do so either. I've also heard more people have left in the last few weeks and I'm 100% sure that more people will be leaving very soon(us) . Thanks for reposting. It certainly does seem like there are some strained relationships at 22cans.
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Post by Danjal on Jan 26, 2015 18:57:54 GMT
It doesn't mean they're being payed off though. Most journalists know that if they ask certain things from certain people, those people will simply no longer talk to them, so those journalists could no longer do their job. If a journalist wants to bring up a difficult issue with the person they are interviewing, they have to go about it very diplomatically, or accept that their journalistic efforts have an expiration date. This makes honest journalism, whether in games or anywhere else, quite difficult indeed. Ofcourse the moment journalism stops being objective, it also stops being journalism and becomes advertising. What should happen is that if a company pushes out faulty products and wants to muddle up the reviews - nobody should review them anymore. Which in turn should send up some massive red flags because why does *company X* never get any reviews on their products when all other companies do? And thats where it gets shady, because there are a lot of people that claim to be journalists and claim to do reviews - that really only do promotional pieces (paid or otherwise). As a journalist or content reviewer, you really only have one job. Which is to accurately report on the product with facts. Regardless of whether this is good or bad. The reality is far from that, because a lot of sites and papers don't want to end up on the "bad side" of the corporations and companies - they end up walking on eggshells and avoid reporting on things alltogether rather than give an honest review. Which is part of the reason why I think that youtube and streaming are a really good addition to the information made available to the consumer. Because its REALLY HARD to stomp down on all the content that gets put out there. The funny thing about this is that we're creating an environment where the consumer gets rewarded for waiting. Early adopters (I'm talking day 1 purchase/pre-order here, not early access) of many products get shafted with bugs and issues. While people who wait get better reviews, more content and discounts. The only way the games industry can turn this around is by offering better quality support early on (make early adoption have perks over waiting) and provide other reasons NOT to wait. And in an industry that is driven by the initial period sales, I can see a lot of titles getting dropped because more and more gamers decide that its not worth purchasing on day 1 or pre-ordering anymore. But rather working through their backlog from sales and wait untill the game gets on sale or in a bundle itself. Effectively the industry has shot itself in the foot by providing bad support on released products and intimidating review entities in not giving a fair judgement. Making it more favorable to simply wait. As many issues as TotalBiscuit may have - this is one thing in which he makes some very solid points. Transparant and honest review of content is *ESSENTIAL* in the consumer society. Especially with more and more garbage being shoved onto the market on a regular basis by companies trying to make some quick cash.
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Post by hardly on Jan 26, 2015 19:56:58 GMT
I think the gaming landscape would be much improved if we held off preordering and purchased two weeks after release once there is a solid base of reviews in. If developers want to get us to buy day one then they can allow reviews 2 weeks in advance.
It's always disturbing when developers put an embargo on reviews like in the case of assassins creed unity where there were significant issues.
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Post by Danjal on Jan 27, 2015 22:11:10 GMT
I think the gaming landscape would be much improved if we held off preordering and purchased two weeks after release once there is a solid base of reviews in. If developers want to get us to buy day one then they can allow reviews 2 weeks in advance. It's always disturbing when developers put an embargo on reviews like in the case of assassins creed unity where there were significant issues. I agree, with the industry having a strong corporate centric focus (largely because of how console gaming and mainstream focus is setting the tone by the bigger companies) and with even some smaller devs and indies trying to walk that walk and talk that talk going for greed rather than quality - it is essential that the consumer is enabled to be properly informed BEFORE purchasing. I'm of the opinion that when a developer puts an embargo in its release title then the only logical counter is to embargo the title itself. But ofcourse a large group of consumers out there will buy whatever is marketed. Whatever is popular and more importantly, whatever hits the front page of their go-to distribution platform. Which is why we're seeing such a clusterfuck surrounding steam. While I do agree that steam has some responsibility in curating its platform - most importantly, in policing its platform to ensure that people stay honest because bad titles in turn reflect poorly onto the steam platform. The majority problem of bad games isn't so much on steam as it is on the people that blindly buy these games. A secondary problem is reflected in titles such as Godus that do not deliver as expected - and we need to set some groundrules in these new development methods that prevent developers from running away with it, or rather, we need to ensure that they are legally accountable for what they are doing. Early access/crowdfunding or not, at the end of the day they get paid money for something and they have a responsibility to deliver a certain degree of quality. If they do not, there should be some steps that a customer can take - rather than the "oh well, its early access" what is happening right now. As usual legal runs behind several decades on tech though. So its gonna take time before that catches up. And the only way we can force these kinds of changes. Is to ensure that the audience as a whole is more discerning when it comes to their purchasing decisions. Whether its the big AAA-titles or the small ones. Information is key. We helped dig our own graves getting here - we're equally responsible in digging our way out.
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Post by hardly on Feb 13, 2015 8:50:26 GMT
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Post by morsealworth on Feb 13, 2015 11:31:39 GMT
What? Somebody still does?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 13:37:30 GMT
Peter assured The Guardian today that we would be playing a finished version of Godus within 9 months. Here we go folks. Of couse, with Peter, it's safe to assume he was just speaking of the finished mobile version.
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Post by Spiderweb on Feb 13, 2015 14:13:32 GMT
Peter assured The Guardian today that we would be playing a finished version of Godus within 9 months. Here we go folks. Of couse, with Peter, it's safe to assume he was just speaking of the finished mobile version. He Meant Finnish, followed by Swedish and Norwegian versions
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 13, 2015 20:51:38 GMT
I am wearing my Godus t-shirt right now. Total coincidence. Is anyone else wearing theirs?
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 13, 2015 23:27:12 GMT
Peter assured The Guardian today that we would be playing a finished version of Godus within 9 months. Here we go folks. Of couse, with Peter, it's safe to assume he was just speaking of the finished mobile version. He told RPS it'll be about six months. ~facepalm~ I just don't hold to account any deadlines that he utters any more; I'll see it when I see it. But you can best be assured that I'll not let him forget that he said that. I am wearing my Godus t-shirt right now. Total coincidence. Is anyone else wearing theirs? I actually only backed at the tier to receive one copy of Godus on Steam. Surprising that I've hung around this long, being on such a low pledge. It's mostly because I don't worry about the other games I pledged on - though I do keep track of them and visit the communities on occasion. Godus needed my attention. Plus I enjoy the company here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 23:37:47 GMT
Wow... I just got around to reading the newest RPS article...
I take a hard line with Peter/22cans and their shenanigans... But even I think that article was a little brutal. On one hand I'm glad John took Peter to task on his indiscretions, on the other... that was just brutal.
It makes you wonder if further down the road RPS will be seen as a champion for the frustrations that Molyneux fans have experienced, or a shock rag that crossed the line.
I'm kinda torn.
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Post by hardly on Feb 13, 2015 23:46:37 GMT
Wow... I just got around to reading the newest RPS article... I take a hard line with Peter/22cans and their shenanigans... But even I think that article was a little brutal. On one hand I'm glad John took Peter to task on his indiscretions, on the other... that was just brutal. It makes you wonder if further down the road RPS will be seen as a champion for the frustrations that Molyneux fans have experienced, or a shock rag that crossed the line. I'm kinda torn. It was tough but if they'd let him slip into the whole "woe is me, I make mistakes, I just a man...." line it would have become all about Peter.
Good interviews always walk the line between offensive and effective and this was tough but they never strayed into areas that were irrelevant or personal. In fact Peter makes interviews personal by drawing the focus back to him. What they did was force him to acknowledge the contradictions and yes this did feel like a person holding a dogs nose in their poo but it was only so difficult and brutal because Peter has such a complicated relationship with the truth.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Feb 14, 2015 0:02:51 GMT
Wow... I just got around to reading the newest RPS article... I take a hard line with Peter/22cans and their shenanigans... But even I think that article was a little brutal. On one hand I'm glad John took Peter to task on his indiscretions, on the other... that was just brutal. It makes you wonder if further down the road RPS will be seen as a champion for the frustrations that Molyneux fans have experienced, or a shock rag that crossed the line. I'm kinda torn. It was tough but if they'd let him slip into the whole "woe is me, I make mistakes, I just a man...." line it would have become all about Peter.
Good interviews always walk the line between offensive and effective and this was tough but they never strayed into areas that were irrelevant or personal. In fact Peter makes interviews personal by drawing the focus back to him. What they did was force him to acknowledge the contradictions and yes this did feel like a person holding a dogs nose in their poo but it was only so difficult and brutal because Peter has such a complicated relationship with the truth.
"I'm no philosopher Hardly, what can I...I don't know about the truth, I just know I believe so much."
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 14, 2015 3:00:27 GMT
It was tough but if they'd let him slip into the whole "woe is me, I make mistakes, I just a man...." line it would have become all about Peter.
Good interviews always walk the line between offensive and effective and this was tough but they never strayed into areas that were irrelevant or personal. In fact Peter makes interviews personal by drawing the focus back to him. What they did was force him to acknowledge the contradictions and yes this did feel like a person holding a dogs nose in their poo but it was only so difficult and brutal because Peter has such a complicated relationship with the truth.
"I'm no philosopher Hardly, what can I...I don't know about the truth, I just know I believe so much." Sorry, Peter, but this isn't fucking Disneyland.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2015 3:04:35 GMT
"I'm no philosopher Hardly, what can I...I don't know about the truth, I just know I believe so much." Sorry, Peter, but this isn't fucking Disneyland. I'm sorry officer, I believed, at the time, with all my heart, that robbing that bank was legal. I'm sorry, Professor... I believed, at the time, that I was not plagiarizing that medical journal that I plagiarized, and therefore cannot be held accountable, because I believed.
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Post by bed on Feb 14, 2015 3:46:47 GMT
I am wearing my Godus t-shirt right now. Total coincidence. Is anyone else wearing theirs? I actually only backed at the tier to receive one copy of Godus on Steam. Surprising that I've hung around this long, being on such a low pledge. It's mostly because I don't worry about the other games I pledged on - though I do keep track of them and visit the communities on occasion. Godus needed my attention. Plus I enjoy the company here. I too only backed at the entry-level 1 steam copy. I was keen on the official backers forum to see the game development process that Peter used for the games I loved so much. That I'm still here is a testament to *this* forum and passion of everyone.
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Post by Danjal on Feb 14, 2015 18:05:03 GMT
Wow... I just got around to reading the newest RPS article... I take a hard line with Peter/22cans and their shenanigans... But even I think that article was a little brutal. On one hand I'm glad John took Peter to task on his indiscretions, on the other... that was just brutal. It makes you wonder if further down the road RPS will be seen as a champion for the frustrations that Molyneux fans have experienced, or a shock rag that crossed the line. I'm kinda torn. Its entirely deserved. If you dig yourself in such a pit - don't complain when it collapses on you afterwards. At every step of the way Peter turns around and goes "Oh sorry guys, I should've listened to you." The problem is that he then turns around AGAIN and continues down that very same path. Down the line he turns around again with a "Oh silly me, I'm so inexperienced, I've done it wrong again. I'll do better I promise!" And he turns around and continues down the very same path AGAIN... During the development of Godus I've seen numerous articles, interviews and statements by Peter saying that he did things wrong, that he should've listened to people who had experience in those fields and listened to his backers, supporters, fans and customers - only to ignore it each and every time. At that point you don't feel sorry for him. RPS (and the others for that matter) did not cross a line. They took a stand and called him out on his BS where others didn't. And the reality is that when all is said and done, Godus will be dismissed as a sad accident, something that happens within the industry (not every game can be a success) and whatever money he made off of the backs of the mobile whales will fund his venture into "The Trail" - a venture in which he isn't even accountable towards backers anymore so he can literally do whatever the hell he wants (Which is exactly what he's after... No accountability, a veritable playground for his twisted view of reality.)
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 14, 2015 21:15:11 GMT
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