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Post by mindless on Jul 19, 2015 0:48:57 GMT
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 19, 2015 9:44:47 GMT
Ok, I know we've been over this interview a few times now but there are a few things I really take exception to. Simon is saying that it was ignorance of how busines and finances work that resulted in the God of Gods snafu. This is a bizarre confession. When PM started 22Cans he acknowledged that he wasn't much of a businessman, and for that reason Peter Murphy joined him in the venture as a co-founder, shareholder and head of Finance. Peter Murphy is ACA qualified and has held various senior roles in finance in the past, including CFO: see credited roles here. Where financial technicalities are concerned, it's untrue to say "there was no-one in the studio to do that". There was Peter Murphy. That isn't to say that there was much by way of communication and cooperation between the two PMs, of course. Maybe this lack of recognition of a finance team is another indication of the chaos going on behind the scenes. I would say there is a strong "financial concept of what this God of Gods thing is". Peter Molyneux has referred to the prize as a portion of either revenue of profit from Godus. It was never "let's put aside a pound a day for Bryan", it was very definitively a slice of the pie. Well, one pie or another - figuring out whether PM actually meant profit or revenue is a huge distinction. Not only that, but PM said they were already accruing the money, which suggests that not only was there a 'financial concept' but they'd even ironed out some of the particulars like what the percentage would be. The loophole here is that they could claim they don't need to start doing any accruals or whatever until the God of Gods concept has actually "gone live", which frankly, it probably never will. This is very clearly not consistent with PM's earlier interviews and intentions, but it seems to be what they've resorted to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 13:06:28 GMT
"There's nothing to calculate [the prize] on. You can't say, let's put a pound a day away for Bryan, or ten pounds. There's no financial concept of what this God of Gods thing is, and that's what we need to sort out," he said. "That's not to say there isn't an idea of what maybe it should be. But I categorically don't want to just buy Bryan off. I don't want to go, we're really sorry, here you go, and we really mean it. No actually, let's try do the right thing. It's so difficult to try and convey I just want to do the right thing."
Wow, sounds almost like the toss Peter gave Bryan about a year ago, except the part where Peter actually said where they were putting money aside. So what difference will there be by next year? Simon really has yet to say how he's going to "do the right thing" for much about anything while stating yet again not much else than that which we already know. Let me guess what "the right thing" will be: more mea culpa served underwhelmingly transitory to The Trail.
Just a bit longer until they have their next NERPS ready to hype out, believing that they've been excused upon their previous title's follies.
The community and press have already been quite aware of not just Peter Molyneux fucking up, but also how badly he was fucking up, for this article to really not convey anything that new - especially the part where they're admitting that they have nobody functioning in a Production role.
I suppose these recent articles rather eliminate the "ignorance" possibility I offered, and that Simon definitely knows the situation and state of game there, which in context would mean that some replies about the Early Access program "risks" weren't too kind on his part.
So how does 22cans plan on fixing anything or is it just going to be more show of activity upon Combat until they can figure out something else to hype to the community while trying to avoid discussing everything else?
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Post by jpickford on Jul 20, 2015 8:24:11 GMT
I'm pretty sure PM once said that royalties are already accruing for Bryan.
Hiding behind the feature not being implemented is bad form. Why not just pay him royalties from the start until he's unseated from the God of God's position? Which is probably never as they will never implement it.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 20, 2015 9:16:19 GMT
22Cans are fortunate that Bryan is media-averse and disinterested in the whole affair. I think he's said in previous interviews that he's not much of a gamer, won Curiosity on a fluke and doesn't particularly care about Godus or the "God of Gods" role. He could very easily be demanding the money they have repeatedly promised him, especially now they're backtracking and trying to pretend it was never on the table.
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 20, 2015 10:29:20 GMT
22Cans are fortunate that Bryan is media-averse and disinterested in the whole affair. I think he's said in previous interviews that he's not much of a gamer, won Curiosity on a fluke and doesn't particularly care about Godus or the "God of Gods" role. He could very easily be demanding the money they have repeatedly promised him, especially now they're backtracking and trying to pretend it was never on the table. Simon is being honest. We're changing what's happened in the past and that starts with honesty  Bryan will get his prize, the details of how he features in the game aren't ironclad just yet, but it will happen. What originally was the plan was for Bryan to receive a percentage of the profits from his time as God of Gods in the multiplayer. As the multiplayer feature hasn't yet reached Godus, Bryan does not have any rewards from this. Simon has been in touch with Bryan recently, he's even seen a rough cut of the Documentary, we're working with him to come to a conclusion that's beneficial to both of us - wether that is waiting for multiplayer or having him in the game without the multiplayer component fully added, we'll see. When there's something to announce we'll make sure everyone knows! At the moment, Simon and myself are privately talking to Bryan about going forward. We've got ideas and we've been sharing those with him. As Simon said in the Eurogamer interview: "Actually, I'd rather just keep talking to Bryan and say, 'Let's do something based around this. How cool is that?' Or, 'Let's try and do something based around this.'"
PS We conducted two press interviews last week. Eurogamer and another more business orientated one that is yet to be published. Everything that is out at the moment comes as a repost from the Eurogamer article. |
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Post by jpickford on Jul 20, 2015 10:36:33 GMT
Just pay him the royalties. It's super weasely to tie it to a non existent feature.
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Post by jpickford on Jul 20, 2015 10:42:10 GMT
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 20, 2015 10:43:10 GMT
Colin, I think we're all about "changing what's happened in the past" and honesty is always a good thing, but just being honest about everything doesn't mean we're getting positive outcomes or that anything particularly exciting or encouraging is going on.
I'm pretty certain, for example, that Bryan might get offered something that is hyped up as cool and exciting, but ultimately includes no financial reward. There is an enormous difference between "you're going to get a cut of the profits of our game, which is earning tens of millions of dollars!" [source: PM] and "you are going to get something cool". Which is not even to get started on all the ideas that were being thrown around back in the day, regarding what the God of Gods role would entail within the game itself. It's increasingly looking like it's going to be a fancified score board.
I look forward to seeing the other article when it's published.
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 20, 2015 10:58:15 GMT
We're not withholding money from Bryan. The Eurogamer interview with Simon is correct. |
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 20, 2015 11:04:53 GMT
Colin, I think we're all about "changing what's happened in the past" and honesty is always a good thing, but just being honest about everything doesn't mean we're getting positive outcomes or that anything particularly exciting or encouraging is going on. I'm pretty certain, for example, that Bryan might get offered something that is hyped up as cool and exciting, but ultimately includes no financial reward. There is an enormous difference between "you're going to get a cut of the profits of our game, which is earning tens of millions of dollars!" [source: PM] and "you are going to get something cool". Which is not even to get started on all the ideas that were being thrown around back in the day, regarding what the God of Gods role would entail within the game itself. It's increasingly looking like it's going to be a fancified score board. I look forward to seeing the other article when it's published. Bryan will receive a financial reward. We've said he will and that's the way it will stay. Sometimes the honest outcome isn't the most positive, but we have to start from somewhere and build on the mistakes of the past. As much as I wish they did, some changes aren't an overnight process and will take time. I see one of the biggest problems of the past being incredibly revealing about everything and then.. if something doesn't pan out.. not really discussing what, or why it went wrong. This is one of the biggest things Simon and myself will be addressing going forward. |
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Post by jpickford on Jul 20, 2015 11:05:09 GMT
Shocking. Why not just honour the earlier promise? Imagine, some actually positive PR.
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 20, 2015 11:07:06 GMT
Shocking. Why not just honour the earlier promise? Bryan's reward is dependant on Bryan featuring in the game. As of this day, he has not featured in the game. Not sure I see what's shocking about it. |
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Post by jpickford on Jul 20, 2015 11:10:30 GMT
Because that directly contradicts what PM said earlier. He said the money is already accruing which means it's a percentage of revenue from the beginning and not tied to a non-existent game feature.
Don't you realise how pathetic this looks? You're basically saying "Our hands are tied, we can't pay him because [recently made up rule]".
You can just as easily decide to pay him his share as originally promised.
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 20, 2015 11:15:15 GMT
Because that directly contradicts what PM said earlier. He said the money is already accruing which means it's a percentage of revenue from the beginning and not tied to a non-existent game feature. Don't you realise how pathetic this looks? You're basically saying "Our hands are tied, we can't pay him because [recently made up rule]. When you can just as easily decide to pay him his share as originally promised. As Eurogamer correctly states: " The contract signed by both 22cans and Bryan states that he is entitled to a small percentage of the money made by Godus while he is God of Gods. But God of Gods isn't in the game - and 22cans are not contractually obliged to release it. God of Gods depends on multiplayer being in Godus, and multiplayer depends on combat being in the game, and both rely on network technology working." This is contract has not changed. Bryan will get his reward. There's nothing more to add. I realise some people may be unhappy with this but as I've stated, we're talking to Bryan at the moment and we'll take it from there. Thanks |
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Post by jpickford on Jul 20, 2015 11:24:07 GMT
You can just as well say he's God of Gods now, it's a position he won. Why not? PM said the money is accruing already.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 20, 2015 11:56:59 GMT
colin22cans, there may be a contract, but there have also been public statements from the leader of the studio. Hiding behind the technicalities of the contract at this point makes little sense. You know the press is gonna eat you (22cans) alive, right?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 11:57:02 GMT
It's bullshit. The whole curiosity prize was bullshit from the beginning. I am sure the whole prize thing was something Peter came up with while refilling the toilet paper and overheating the restroom. Then he came out and said to Jack let's make a video. The finance guy heard of the whole thing when the cube was over and he saw the video on YouTube. First he thought "Oh my god, we are f***ed up". Then they found out by a wonderful surprise the winner was a nice guy from Scotland and they were back in business. While exploiting Bryan for publicity they made a nice little contract - promising everything but nothing concretely (as they did on Kickstarter - wouldn't be surprised if they come out with the news that Bryan owes them Money).
Bryan is in excactly the same position as we Kickstarter backers. He believed in Peter Molyneux and 22cans and they fooled him. Yes, he will get his share of the Money. Finally when multiplayer (we don't know if it will ever be in the game) is there, he will get a share of every $ the game makes. Ok, it's on sale for 3 years now and the mobile game will be dead then ... but hey, here we have you this nice T-Shirt and Poster, both with nice printed signatures.
The question is then - if you say that what in the Eurogamer interview was written is true ... is Peter Molyneux a pathologic lier? Or is 22cans a group of scammer tricking Kids? Or how can you explain what happend? The Videos and interviews are out there and say something different. We all know that the commercial future of godus doesn't look good - and don't tell me you think it will be great, cause moving almost the whole team to another project tells us a different Story.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 20, 2015 12:11:27 GMT
You can just as well say he's God of Gods now, it's a position he won. Why not? PM said the money is accruing already. Not a huge number of possibilities here: - PM was lying when he said the money was accruing.
- PM was mistaken because he did not understand the financials (improbable based on what he said, but whatever).
- PM was telling the truth, but Simon has re-examined the contract with Bryan and found that the wording allows them to reverse the accrual and change the nature of the prize to something easier and cheaper.
The key parts of the contract are that Bryan will get nothing until God of Gods is in the game, and 22Cans is under no obligation to implement God of Gods. Trebles all round!
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 20, 2015 12:13:01 GMT
colin22cans, there may be a contract, but there have also been public statements from the leader of the studio. Hiding behind the technicalities of the contract at this point makes little sense. You know the press is gonna eat you (22cans) alive, right? I'm just stating what Simon has said to Eurogamer. We're not hiding - I think saying nothing about the situation would have more been considered hiding. That's what the current contract states and as mentioned we're talking to Bryan about how we're planning to go ahead with his involvement at the moment. I think Simon's been really frank and honest about the whole thing. It wasn't handled well in the past and we're now taking the reigns and handling it personally. |
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