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Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2015 14:23:33 GMT
So, a customer asks for help on the Steam Forums on September 8th. Gets the usual "We'll look into it soonus", and no further replies after that. As everyone knows, the usual.
On October 20th, that same customer comes back and asks if there were any further developments. Of course, needless to say, there was no answer, as there are no further developments.
steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/2/527274088407471783/
In a separate thread, another customer asks for help with a similar problem. steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/2/490123832543273404/
Praseodymium replies in that thread, and tells him not to hold his breath, as this problem was already brought up to the attention of the developer by another customer, over a month ago, and received the usual reply of soonus without any follow through.
Then this character "Midnight Bacon" pipes in, deletes Praseodymium's reply, gives him a warning about being unhelpful, and gives the usual soonus reply that they will look into it after the holidays, which basically means never. Oh the hypocrisy, calling Praseodymium's reply unhelpful. It's funny if it wasn't so sad. |
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Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2015 14:30:44 GMT
Oh, and just for the follow up. Of course, he just posted a reply in the first thread where the customer was waiting for one for over a month. Just the same reply he posted in the other thread, that they will look into it after the holidays. As if it's a newly discovered problem that wasn't reported multiple times, months ago.
To any 22 cans reading this, I saved screen captures of the posts, and will post them here, in case you delete or move the original threads. Something we all have to do when dealing with a bunch of liars.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Oct 21, 2015 16:52:27 GMT
Who the heck is this 'Midnight Bacon' character?
Also, if that post is any accurate info, they're going into Holiday Hiatus Hideaway excuse mode a bit early this year. Not surprisingly given the recent long silence/absence.
The journos ate going to have fun with this.
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Post by greay on Oct 21, 2015 17:04:44 GMT
Who the heck is this 'Midnight Bacon' character? Also, if that post is any accurate info, they're going into Holiday Hiatus Hideaway excuse mode a bit early this year. Not surprisingly given the recent long silence/absence. The journos ate going to have fun with this. Colin |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 21, 2015 17:30:28 GMT
After the holidays??? For real??? Which holidays and for which year?
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Post by mindless on Oct 21, 2015 17:34:25 GMT
They are going for the holidays, the big question though is will they come back  If they hadn't told us they were going away for the holidays, would anything have changed, would anyone have noticed a difference? |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Oct 21, 2015 17:42:15 GMT
I realized after reading that post it says, ...when 'CyberGrim' gets back from holiday...", which means he just meant that support person was away from the office. I've learned in the UK 'holiday' can mean both vacation & holidays. So, likely just 'CyberGrim' is out atm.
I had somehow missed that Colin was 'Midnight Bacon'. It's interesting that he is replying to support messages but staying fairly silent otherwise.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 21, 2015 18:05:38 GMT
I really think a release is imminent.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Oct 21, 2015 18:10:38 GMT
I really think a release is imminent. By 'release' do you mean a game client update or full release? What makes you think that? |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 21, 2015 18:14:14 GMT
I meant a game update.
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Post by Hiphoppapotamus on Oct 21, 2015 18:21:53 GMT
Maybe, just maybe the deafening silence is due to the constant and immediate deletions of rigorous hourly postings from the 22cans staff and voulenteer mods by themselves due to their own "unhelpful" nature.
I've seen stranger things come from that studio.
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Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2015 20:08:26 GMT
Oh, this is hilarious. It gets better.
So, Praesmeodymium replies: " This is literally the first response from anyone official at 22cans since sept 11th.
and your first post was to delete and warn me, I'm not the unhelpful one here.
If I hadnt posted anything at all it is likely thes guys still wouldnt have an answer as you have had a month to reply.
Dont blame me for your failings then take it out on me to make yourself feel better. This is your failure at PR and customer service. "
Reasonably pointing out that they are less than helpful when after initially replying to a customer problem over a month ago, there are no further developments, and he is warning a new customer not to hold out hope, as is proven by an empty follow up reply to the original problem.
Then Aynen, a waste of skin, pipes in:
"Are you aware that you're arguing with a mod now? If you don't feel the issue is resolved you'll have to resolve it either through the report feature or privately. I'd like to avoid having you break rules that you might be banned for. So I hope you won't continue an open debate about this."
Classic. Gotta love it. I'm saving all those screens for the media, once the next one hits. It will be awesome as I will start spreading them on all the comment boards for the new articles.
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Post by colin22cans on Oct 21, 2015 20:12:40 GMT
CyberGrim/Martin is on a personal holiday (it's his birthday!) - Whole company isn't on Holiday  . Martin deals with all Godus Steam support and normally replies to the support threads, I guess this one slipped through the net. Most of his support is 1 on 1 with the user personally through the email. I replied with what Martin will need to help out the user - that's all. Praseodymium's post wasn't helpful or aiding the user asking for support in any way and that's why it was removed. Support threads are for aiding users in need of Godus support and that's all - it shouldn't be a place to troll or have a go at moderators for whatever reason. I can't share any update news with you at this moment in time but Lord Ba'al is almost right. I'm hoping to be able to share new information with you very soon.  PS Simon won't be able to respond at the moment as he's been out of the studio (work related) all week and won't be back until next week. |
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Post by Praesme on Oct 21, 2015 20:17:28 GMT
Nice spin, but
1 its users plural,
2 that is a month long net to slip through
3 it was literally hours after my "trolling" you got around to responding, so my prodding you was helpful to the user
4 jack booted lying thug
5 Give me a refund for my money, because I was sold a pack of lies on steam and thats been my beef since the beginning, I know you don't want to see it, but this has been a failing of 22cons since before you were made the sucker.
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Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2015 20:29:16 GMT
Hi Colin,
In all fairness, he was setting the expectations for the new customer. If it was a new customer that just had purchased the game, he absolutely should know that 22 cans does not provide any meaningful support to their customers, as Steam offers only a limited window refund policy.
Praseodymium pointed out that another customer with a similar problem reported it over a month ago, and got a standard reply that everyone now knows as "soonus", meaning nothing will be done. Then that customer and his problem were promptly forgotten. Which had been and still is the usual business practice for 22 cans.
He was not trolling, he was pointing out the facts. Now, those facts do not reflect favorably on 22 cans, but they are non the less still facts.
Nobody is looking at you to share any news, as anything that had come out of 22 cans in the last 2 years, and up till today had been a lie. All, and I literally mean all the deadlines have been missed. All, and I mean all the updates, people had been misled. I still remember when 22 cans was supposed to have been working on the PC version, and it turned out they were getting ready for the mobile release.
Quite honestly, even when 22 cans claims they are working on combat, and that China release is not taking any time from this combat development, I very much suspect it's a lie, based on prior experience and track record. How is it possible, that the development of combat for a game it taking now close to a year. To add to the problem, there are no test builds for the customers to try, and we are talking about an Early Access game, where the whole point of Early Access is to have test builds for the customers.
As far as sharing new information goes, we have heard the "soon" remark so many times, that it's affectionately now know as "soonus". One thing that 22 cans has been very successful in, is creating close to a dozen new words to introduce to global vocabulary. However, in this case, it's nothing to be proud of.
To wrap it up. Why do you have Aynen as a moderator? He has no tact, he has no communication skills. Do you not understand that he does a shit poor job moderating and actually detracts from any good will a good moderator could generate on the Steam's Godus forums? In the end, it's up to you whom you hire, fire, or retain as volunteers. However, you should pull up all of Aynen's posts and give it a thorough look. Then make an honest (I laughed a little here) to heart decision if Aynen has done a fair job of moderating, or has he compounded the problems through his interactions with your customer base.
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Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2015 20:53:59 GMT
Oh, I just found it was you, Colin, that banned Praseodymium from Steam's Godus forum, simply for telling a new customer to not hold his breath. He should have told him to refund the game, as his issues will not be addressed, regardless if support staff is out on holiday or not. Then he should have linked the other thread to show him factual proof of that.
Well, nevermind about Aynen, he simply follows the corporate tripe and agenda.
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Post by Aynen on Oct 21, 2015 20:56:21 GMT
Oh, I just found it was you, Colin, that banned Praseodymium from Steam's Godus forum, simply for telling a new customer to not hold his breath. He should have told him to refund the game, as his issues will not be addressed, regardless if support staff is out on holiday or not. Then he should have linked the other thread to show him factual proof of that. Well, nevermind about Aynen, he simply follows the corporate tripe and agenda. I appreciate you retracting that. Thanks. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 21, 2015 20:57:33 GMT
Why do you have Aynen as a moderator? He has no tact, he has no communication skills. I have to disagree with you there. I think his communication skills are alright. |
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Post by colin22cans on Oct 21, 2015 21:05:03 GMT
Hi Colin, In all fairness, he was setting the expectations for the new customer. If it was a new customer that just had purchased the game, he absolutely should know that 22 cans does not provide any meaningful support to their customers, as Steam offers only a limited window refund policy. Praseodymium pointed out that another customer with a similar problem reported it over a month ago, and got a standard reply that everyone now knows as "soonus", meaning nothing will be done. Then that customer and his problem were promptly forgotten. Which had been and still is the usual business practice for 22 cans. He was not trolling, he was pointing out the facts. Now, those facts do not reflect favorably on 22 cans, but they are non the less still facts. Nobody is looking at you to share any news, as anything that had come out of 22 cans in the last 2 years, and up till today had been a lie. All, and I literally mean all the deadlines have been missed. All, and I mean all the updates, people had been misled. I still remember when 22 cans was supposed to have been working on the PC version, and it turned out they were getting ready for the mobile release. Quite honestly, even when 22 cans claims they are working on combat, and that China release is not taking any time from this combat development, I very much suspect it's a lie, based on prior experience and track record. How is it possible, that the development of combat for a game it taking now close to a year. To add to the problem, there are no test builds for the customers to try, and we are talking about an Early Access game, where the whole point of Early Access is to have test builds for the customers. As far as sharing new information goes, we have heard the "soon" remark so many times, that it's affectionately now know as "soonus". One thing that 22 cans has been very successful in, is creating close to a dozen new words to introduce to global vocabulary. However, in this case, it's nothing to be proud of. To wrap it up. Why do you have Aynen as a moderator? He has no tact, he has no communication skills. Do you not understand that he does a shit poor job moderating and actually detracts from any good will a good moderator could generate on the Steam's Godus forums? In the end, it's up to you whom you hire, fire, or retain as volunteers. However, you should pull up all of Aynen's posts and give it a thorough look. Then make an honest (I laughed a little here) to heart decision if Aynen has done a fair job of moderating, or has he compounded the problems through his interactions with your customer base. Hi Drake A support thread is not the place to try to set any expectations for a customer or point out "facts". 22cans provides customer support on a daily basis with 1 on 1 interactions with Godus players - just this week our support channels have aided and assisted over 80 users who have required help with Godus on PC or Mobile platforms. Please do not try to spread incorrect information. In this case, CyberGrim/Martin was not aware of the thread and that's all (and nor was I) - nothing sinister, nothing pitchforky about it. His entire job does not entail around Support. At the moment, it mostly revolves around making sure the next Godus release launches without any game breaking bugs and with the size of it, it's a fair task. Can you please show me where the information that I have passed on to this forum has been a lie? I cannot speak for past users or events that happened before my time at 22cans because it's not my place to and I just don't know all the details. What I have posted and shared so far relating to Combat has been correct and I really am looking forward to sharing more with Steam, Proboards and Kickstarter - I think people are going to be pretty impressed with the amount of work done. We haven't publicly released any test builds due to the nature of development. The whole point of Early Access is to allow customers/users to play games as they develop and that has been the case with Godus - It's not to just publish any buggy release whenever. A lot of work goes into testing and bug catching and if we released a game that crashed after mere minutes of gameplay, users would rightly be furious with that and people would take that as a representation of the final product. The work with LongTu Game really hasn't taken much time away from Combat development. All the work and localisation is being handled by the Chinese developer and any questions are handled by Simon or Production. Prae has the right to reply to his ban and we are listening. I won't be discussing the ban further outside of Steam. Thanks |
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Post by Drake on Oct 21, 2015 21:19:06 GMT
Hi Colin,
Name a game on Steam, in Early Access, that has gone close to a year without updates, and has not been abandoned? I know that Molyneux loves to advertise his product as trend setters, this is not a good trend to set, not for Early Access.
For your other point about buggy releases. Steam has a feature called opt-in beta. This is only for people that opt-in, and the expectation is that it will be an unstable build.
Further, lets go ahead and say that you don't even want to participate in an Early Access opt-in beta program. Where's the video footage of the combat in development?
Seriously, for an Early Access title, the way you run it... well, you get the idea.
As far as limited staff, work load, and the rest. I don't have much sympathy. It's really simple. When we bought the game, we paid for full support staff. We were tricked, and the money was spend on making a mobile game. That mobile game now, presumably, generates an income. We were told that income would be used to keep the staff, and work on the PC game. Again, we were lied to. The staff was moved onto another project, and now you have a token minimal staff that supports mobile, and according to you, works on PC version of the game.
We paid for a PC game, and there were staff to create a PC game. The money should still be there from the mobile revenue stream, yet the staff has been moved onto another project, and thus the PC build, yet again, suffers. With that in mind, as I said earlier, as a customer, I have zero sympathy for the shortage of staff and their workload.
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. Martin deals with all Godus Steam support and normally replies to the support threads, I guess this one slipped through the net. Most of his support is 1 on 1 with the user personally through the email. I replied with what Martin will need to help out the user - that's all. 
