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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 2, 2016 9:44:27 GMT
I was reminded of Flavourworks recently by an improbable source: Fragglerock Ampersand, a recurring troll on the Godus Steam boards, who does not appear to own Godus but conveniently turns up once in a while to aggressively and unpleasantly defend 22Cans' staff and business practices whilst being apparently immune to moderation. Strange that this person, who never expresses any modicum of interest in Godus/Godus Wars, should abruptly namedrop an obscure, productless company started a year ago by two former 22Canners, in the context of challenging other board users not to prejudge it! Anyway, Flavourworks are supposed to be announcing their first title in 2016, so let's be on the lookout. Flavourworks Twitter twitter.com/flavourworksFlavourworks homepage: www.flavourworks.co.uk/The Twitter page invites you to sign up to their mailing list for "saucy information on the future" but I've been on it for almost a year and received nothing yet. There seems to be very little information available about what Flavourworks are up to as yet. Lord Ba'al picked up on a Tweet from Jack in June 2015, linking to an interview where Jack mentions it. See some discussion/transcription of this here: on the Tweets thread. Lines of interest in the interview:
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 2, 2016 13:59:15 GMT
Where did Fragglerock mention that to you?
Ehm... nevermind, found it.
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Post by hardly on Apr 2, 2016 22:02:19 GMT
Weird. I guess we will see something from them eventually. With this along with the Trail I am curious to see what they produce but of course I have no intention of buying the product unless it is proven to be amazing.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 3, 2016 9:32:36 GMT
Weird. I guess we will see something from them eventually. With this along with the Trail I am curious to see what they produce but of course I have no intention of buying the product unless it is proven to be amazing. I'm also curious as to what it's all about. I haven't been following the project very closely so I'm sure I've missed something, but so far the only description I've seen of what the game will be like has emerged from the interview linked in Jack's Tweet. And it doesn't exactly give much away. "Old-school gameplay" makes me think it could be roguelike, or maybe a 2D platformer. In my head it's gonna be like Crypt of the Necrodancer or something. Whatever it is, I'm willing to give it a fair shake, but only because of the involvement of Pavle on the project. 22Cans was Pavle's first programming job, but unlike Jack "Mic-stand" Attridge it was a role that actually involved creating something. I imagine he's going to be doing most of the work on this project while Jack focuses on the pretentious PR campaign.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 3, 2016 10:55:28 GMT
We could always ask Jack directly.
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Post by jackof22cans on Apr 10, 2016 12:47:31 GMT
Oh I just happened to check these boards out of curiosity and found this. I would say design may not be as tangible as code but it still involves a lot of work. However one big reason for us starting Flavourworks was so that I could control the creative direction. If it screws up then at least it did within my control. Turns out there is an awful lot of work that goes into starting a company. We actually had a full working prototype a year ago, but since then we've put a lot of energy into technology and pre production stuff. I think it's likely not like anything you're thinking of, but I am hopeful that you'll like it. I'd be tempted to show some of you over a brew sometime but for now I need to keep it top secret. Believe me though it's super frustrating not being able to just show you the damn thing.
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Post by idem on Apr 10, 2016 12:50:15 GMT
Any idea how far off you are from being able to show it?
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Post by jackof22cans on Apr 10, 2016 12:57:46 GMT
Any idea how far off you are from being able to show it? Hard to say. We could honestly show it now. I could have shown it a year ago. Even if the extra work we put in shows a minimal difference I'd rather reveal it with it being as close to the final content, polish, narrative, features as possible. A lot of heartbreak came out of godus being so publicly iterative that I want people to just be surprised and delighted and above all else really really enjoy it.
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Post by idem on Apr 10, 2016 13:03:16 GMT
Yeah, that's understandable. I really hope that, whatever it is, it does really well!
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 10, 2016 14:50:29 GMT
Yeah make it shine Jack and then show us.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 10, 2016 20:56:40 GMT
Nice to see you turn up here Jack, even though I was kind of mean Sorry about that. I can understand you wanting to keep it under wraps for the time being, especially given the Godus experience (though of course Godus had a whole constellation of issues surrounding it, and so far so good on avoiding those issues for your own game). Can you tell us anything at all? Like what platform it's going to be on?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 10, 2016 21:00:02 GMT
Or how you are financing yourself and Pavel while there are no sales yet?
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Post by hardly on Apr 11, 2016 1:29:09 GMT
Any idea how far off you are from being able to show it? Hard to say. We could honestly show it now. I could have shown it a year ago. Even if the extra work we put in shows a minimal difference I'd rather reveal it with it being as close to the final content, polish, narrative, features as possible. A lot of heartbreak came out of godus being so publicly iterative that I want people to just be surprised and delighted and above all else really really enjoy it. I hope it works out Jack. In terms of the whole EA/iterative release approach I wonder whether it does detract from your enjoyment of a game even when that game is very good post release. I'm eagerly awaiting Stellaris and would give my right nut to play it but deep down I know getting "early access" would ruin it for me. I think you are making the right decision going for a Big Bang announcement and release. Good luck.
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Post by jackof22cans on Apr 11, 2016 10:05:44 GMT
A few Q's there!
Crumpy - no worries! I guess I can say it's very narrative focused. It will be a short but focused experience. It will be a one-off purchase, no plans for IAP. A motivation for making it is to allow as many people as possible to enjoy an interactive narrative experience because I don't like the image problem that games have. However it is no way a dumbed down game experience, and would fit right at home on Steam. We're just aiming for accessibility. In terms of platforms, we started on iOS to get some nice silky touch controls, but we are bringing to other platforms as well, currently doing a console build.
Mr Ba'al - We did manage to get a pretty amazing demo together just on our own funds, and we've proceeded to burn through all our monies but because we're idiots we've gone for a ridiculously ambitious and expensive idea. This has meant bringing on investors but they are very supportive and we have creative freedom. Has been a big learning lesson.
hardly - thanks! Yeah I always felt like "i wouldn't want to play the last of us on early access", and it sort of spoils the magic of a product landing at your feet and feeling so polished it was as life it grew on a tree. I want to be synonymous with quality.
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Post by idem on Apr 11, 2016 11:43:01 GMT
Maybe it's a cool idea to have a special Flavorworks section on this forum just like we have for Genesis?
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 11, 2016 11:50:33 GMT
Hard to say. We could honestly show it now. I could have shown it a year ago. Even if the extra work we put in shows a minimal difference I'd rather reveal it with it being as close to the final content, polish, narrative, features as possible. A lot of heartbreak came out of godus being so publicly iterative that I want people to just be surprised and delighted and above all else really really enjoy it. I hope it works out Jack. In terms of the whole EA/iterative release approach I wonder whether it does detract from your enjoyment of a game even when that game is very good post release. I'm eagerly awaiting Stellaris and would give my right nut to play it but deep down I know getting "early access" would ruin it for me. I think you are making the right decision going for a Big Bang announcement and release. Good luck. I absolutely agree with this, and I think it's one of the many problems with Early Access which hurts the developer as well as the consumer. There isn't a single game in my library that I would want to play in an unfinished state. Even if it's a reasonably feature-complete and stable build, it's not the experience it's supposed to be. You can quickly burn out on the game in its unfinished state before enjoying the full, awesome product when it's actually released.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 11, 2016 18:46:31 GMT
Maybe it's a cool idea to have a special Flavorworks section on this forum just like we have for Genesis? Maybe. But seeing as Jack's project is all secret hush hush it wouldn't make much sense. Genesis is actually crowd sourcing part of the development which is a whole different ball game. There is stuff going on that can be discussed. At this point, I don't see how we can discuss Jack's project aside from "hey Jack has a project", if you get my meaning.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 12, 2016 10:12:12 GMT
... Mr Ba'al - We did manage to get a pretty amazing demo together just on our own funds, and we've proceeded to burn through all our monies but because we're idiots we've gone for a ridiculously ambitious and expensive idea. This has meant bringing on investors but they are very supportive and we have creative freedom. Has been a big learning lesson. ... Investors like Peter Molyneux? I think it's great that he's continuing to support you following your departure from 22Cans. You say you have complete creative freedom (and I don't doubt it) but has he tried to get involved and influence the product?
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 13, 2016 10:40:55 GMT
Some further info on Flavourworks, then. Flavourworks' company documents identify two external investors: Ian Livingstone, who has an impressive list of credits in the video game industry as well as co-founding Games Workshop (I am assuming it's the same Ian Livingstone - he recently Tweeted a photo of Pavle and Jack promoting Flavourworks), and Peter Molyneux (who needs no introduction). Ian looks like a really solid person to have on board. I don't know much about him but looking at the projects and companies he's been involved in, it looks like he's enthusiastic about encouraging new talent and supporting innovation in the gaming industry. The game they're working on is identified in the Articles of Association as being titled "Stings". extra bits deleted
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 13, 2016 17:56:00 GMT
You're good at looking stuff up.
Also, it's interesting that Jack's project now appears to be getting more attention than Godus.
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