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Post by rubgish on May 19, 2014 19:02:17 GMT
I think the whole point is I don't like being lied to. I don't and won't ever accept that it was okay for them to do so. I have asked countless times since the first mention of "gems" if this was going to be a F2P game and was told, not once, not twice but several times that this was not the case. They even came out and said "they hate those type of games"....bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. I was tricked into backing this game, and then when I saw the writing on the one, I was told to stop going Off topic and "constantly bringing up gems" well..........it seems there was a reason they did not want them brought up, they were building this F2P store that very much included the gems and there is not anything they can say to prove that they did not LIE about it. My pink font self does not accept that mobile F2P as anything more than a Farmville ripoff. TBH, Farmville is more fun to play than Godus. Lots of people love to eat bugs too, but I sure as hell don't want to. If you promise me a chocolate chip cookie, it sure as fuck had better have some chocolate and not crunchy beetle parts covered in cocoa. This fucking sucks, why the fuck would I ever invest in a game made for mobile when neither me nor Ba'al have a fucking tablet or touchscreen computer? To play on a fucking phone? Never. This is why WOW is as popular as they are and Godus will never be more than a fruit fly on the teet of life. Totally irrelevant, but lots of colourings you get on chocolate (for example red colouring on smarties and M&M's) are actually made from insects  |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 19, 2014 19:04:16 GMT
Hell I might just send a tweet to peter or send an email and say "Hey Peter, i'm some random guy whos involved in the Godus community, do you fancy doing a quick interview or having a chat with me about the game so I can ask some questions the community is interested in & report back to them?" By all means do. While you're at it you can ask him to create an account here.  |
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Post by Qetesh on May 19, 2014 19:05:27 GMT
I think the whole point is I don't like being lied to. I don't and won't ever accept that it was okay for them to do so. I have asked countless times since the first mention of "gems" if this was going to be a F2P game and was told, not once, not twice but several times that this was not the case. They even came out and said "they hate those type of games"....bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. I was tricked into backing this game, and then when I saw the writing on the one, I was told to stop going Off topic and "constantly bringing up gems" well..........it seems there was a reason they did not want them brought up, they were building this F2P store that very much included the gems and there is not anything they can say to prove that they did not LIE about it. My pink font self does not accept that mobile F2P as anything more than a Farmville ripoff. TBH, Farmville is more fun to play than Godus. Lots of people love to eat bugs too, but I sure as hell don't want to. If you promise me a chocolate chip cookie, it sure as fuck had better have some chocolate and not crunchy beetle parts covered in cocoa. This fucking sucks, why the fuck would I ever invest in a game made for mobile when neither me nor Ba'al have a fucking tablet or touchscreen computer? To play on a fucking phone? Never. This is why WOW is as popular as they are and Godus will never be more than a fruit fly on the teet of life. Totally irrelevant, but lots of colourings you get on chocolate (for example red colouring on smarties and M&M's) are actually made from insects Ugh, good thing I was not eating one when I read this. :PI was always told by my mom that any red dye could cause cancer, so I might be safe from that.  |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 19, 2014 19:05:57 GMT
Totally irrelevant, but lots of colourings you get on chocolate (for example red colouring on smarties and M&M's) are actually made from insects Ever looked up the ingredients for the glacing of pink cakes? Okay, now back on topic. |
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149 
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on May 19, 2014 20:00:30 GMT
The community hasn't always been so negative like this. I know that quite a handful of people didn't even wanted to believe at all that this is a F2P game just because Peter said so.
One of the reasons I made the steam chart graphics and collection of professional Reviews was to prove that this game isn't as great and well perceived as some Fanboys believed it was.
Because no one tried that in the last 1,5 years. Go ahead, tweet him and sent him mails. Report his responses if you get any.
You know, a big reason that this community is so pissed is that 22 completely ignored it. They went silent for 5 months and there had been more than enough friendly or neutral questions and requests.
But only if you want to unlock everything, which isn't the main goal of LoL and it won't give you any advantages in a match.
League of Legends is different in many ways and a common example for a game that uses F2P in a fair way.
Just because its standard on that platform doesn't change the fact that it is designed around F2P.
Name a game that isn't F2P that consists of mainly waiting and having timers that last longer than 1 hour (which is already extremely long for a PC P2P game). By the way, LoL has neither.
Also I know plenty of pay2play mobile games that have neither timers or a repetitive gameplay. The X-Com port, The Room 1&2, Incredipede, World of Goo, Shadowrun, Baldurs Gate: Enhanced Edition, The Cave, Terraria, Simple Rockets, multiple tower defense games...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2014 20:56:17 GMT
Every game (doesn't matter if PC or Mobile) with such horrible microtransactions, which is also balanced around those microtransactions CAN'T be called a good game. Period. This was the tone a year ago and it didn't helped at all. If you would remove those rose-tinted glasses, then maybe you could read the concerns (and claims) a bit more... Objectively. The game isn't balanced around microtransactions, it just speeds up a lot if you spend a lot of money. That's a universal trait of mobile games and some F2P PC games too (I mean just take a look at LoL's model, it's horrific if you want to unlock everything without spending money). Compared to the standard quality of games on mobile, Godus is good. I'm not denying that we asked for stuff a year ago and not much happened, but if you think that sitting here moaning and doing nothing constructive is going to work, you're just flat out wrong. What's been the most successful thing that happened community wise recently? The AMA. How did that occur? Someone asked and Peter said yes. Hell I might just send a tweet to peter or send an email and say "Hey Peter, i'm some random guy whos involved in the Godus community, do you fancy doing a quick interview or having a chat with me about the game so I can ask some questions the community is interested in & report back to them?" I'm fully aware of the concerns and whats going on, it's just that it's people rehashing the same things over and over again as though typing it twice will make it better. I think as a community, we are really pretty destructive as apposed to constructive right about now, and I would like to change that. Was denkst Du wirst Du erreichen wenn Du ihn anrufst? Er wird dir sagen wie "delightful" und "meaningful" alles ist. Danach wird er dich mit seinem zusammenhangslosen Geschwafel in den Schlaf labern. Wird von einem Punkt zum nächsten springen ohne den vorherigen auch nur ansatzweise geklärt zu haben. Sind wir ehrlich, er redet nur noch Quatsch, ernst nehmen sollte das keiner mehr. Nicht ohne Grund gibt es so viele Witze über ihn.
Du willst konstruktiv sein? In welcher Form? Denkst Du wirklich auch nur ansatzweise, dass das etwas ändern würde? Oder meinst Du konstruktiv im Sinne von "wir überlegen gemeinsame wie wir 22cans vor Gericht zerren können"? Wenn die letzten 1 1/2 Jahre etwas gezeigt haben, dann dass konstruktive und positive Denkweise hier in keinster Weise weiterhelfen. Um ehrlich zu sein denke ich wir hätten vor einem Jahr geschlossen an die Öffentlichkeit gehen müssen um die 22cans noch vor dem Early Access Release an die Wand zu fahren. Damit hätten wir zwar auch nicht das versprochene Spiel bekommen, aber zumindest hätte ich nicht ständig das Gefühl, dass sich ein paar reiche Typen bei 22cans und DeNA mit meinem Geld eine goldene Rolex verdienen und dabei ein Haufen ahnungsloser Kids über den Tisch ziehen.
Godus ist für mich erledigt. Spielen will ich den Schrott nicht mehr. Die nächsten Monate wird es ohnehin nur um die Mobileversion gehen, da müssen sie nämlich Content liefern wenn sie was verkaufen wollen.
Und negativ zu reden lasse ich mir nicht verbieten. Wenn ich es dreihundert mal sagen muss was an dem Spiel und an 22cans Schrott ist so tue ich das, wenn es nur einen davon abhält sich dieses Spiel zu kaufen ist es das Wert.
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Post by rubgish on May 19, 2014 21:09:57 GMT
Du willst konstruktiv sein? In welcher Form? Denkst Du wirklich auch nur ansatzweise, dass das etwas ändern würde? Oder meinst Du konstruktiv im Sinne von "wir überlegen gemeinsame wie wir 22cans vor Gericht zerren können"? Wenn die letzten 1 1/2 Jahre etwas gezeigt haben, dann dass konstruktive und positive Denkweise hier in keinster Weise weiterhelfen. Um ehrlich zu sein denke ich wir hätten vor einem Jahr geschlossen an die Öffentlichkeit gehen müssen um die 22cans noch vor dem Early Access Release an die Wand zu fahren. Damit hätten wir zwar auch nicht das versprochene Spiel bekommen, aber zumindest hätte ich nicht ständig das Gefühl, dass sich ein paar reiche Typen bei 22cans und DeNA mit meinem Geld eine goldene Rolex verdienen und dabei ein Haufen ahnungsloser Kids über den Tisch ziehen.
Godus ist für mich erledigt. Spielen will ich den Schrott nicht mehr. Die nächsten Monate wird es ohnehin nur um die Mobileversion gehen, da müssen sie nämlich Content liefern wenn sie was verkaufen wollen.
Und negativ zu reden lasse ich mir nicht verbieten. Wenn ich es dreihundert mal sagen muss was an dem Spiel und an 22cans Schrott ist so tue ich das, wenn es nur einen davon abhält sich dieses Spiel zu kaufen ist es das Wert.
Honestly anything would be better than nothing. We do often hear new stuff from their videos, its just not exactly the stuff we want to hear, mainly because he is allowed to go on and on. An actual interview would provide a more stable platform and encourage him to talk about things that we want to know, as well as the kind of thing he wants to talk about. As for court, I've seen people talking about it, but realistically we don't have a legal leg to stand on, so that's totally pointless to even think about. I still think that they can make a decent PC game out of Godus. I don't think it'll ever be great, because the attempt to do both mobile and PC made it impossible to be a great game. However I feel that we're most likely to get a decent PC game out of it if we engage constructively with 22cans. I appreciate you have the right to complain if you want to, but I just don't really think it's worthwhile making the same complaints over and over. edit: apologies if I've mis-read anything you said, my german isn't great. |
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Tau
Wannabe
Posts: 28
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Post by Tau on May 19, 2014 21:11:39 GMT
The game isn't balanced around microtransactions, it just speeds up a lot if you spend a lot of money. Huh? That's the exact meaning of being balanced around microtransactions. How can someone honestly defend such a devious business model? That's a universal trait of mobile games and some F2P PC games too (I mean just take a look at LoL's model, it's horrific if you want to unlock everything without spending money). Compared to the standard quality of games on mobile, Godus is good. Just because it works doesn't make it good or tolerable. A pyramid scheme works too and is surly better that being violently robbed. Does that make it good? And even the technical aspect of Godus is many things, but "good" surly isn't one of them. The AMA. How did that occur? The AMA? You mean that PR talk? Why shouldn't they take that opportunity? I'm fully aware of the concerns and whats going on, it's just that it's people rehashing the same things over and over again as though typing it twice will make it better. It won't make it better, but it assures that as many people as possible are aware of whats going on. If these things wouldn't be repeated all the time, even more people would have been tricked into this scam, that Godus and 22Can is. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 19, 2014 21:11:45 GMT
Wenn ich es dreihundert mal sagen muss was an dem Spiel und an 22cans Schrott ist so tue ich das And in 22 different languages too if you have to. |
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Tau
Wannabe
Posts: 28
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Post by Tau on May 19, 2014 21:17:40 GMT
Und negativ zu reden lasse ich mir nicht verbieten. Wenn ich es dreihundert mal sagen muss was an dem Spiel und an 22cans Schrott ist so tue ich das, wenn es nur einen davon abhält sich dieses Spiel zu kaufen ist es das Wert.
Genau das ist der Punkt. |
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Post by Qetesh on May 19, 2014 21:17:42 GMT
From my experience with attorneys if there is a legal foot to stand on and they care enough, they would be chirping up. I have heard none so I can only assume our only solace is to vent it out and spread the word so people hear the whole story. I don't think there will ever be any lawsuit and if there was it would be more likely a class action suit that might get you you ten bucks for every hundred pledged.
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Tau
Wannabe
Posts: 28
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Post by Tau on May 19, 2014 21:21:39 GMT
Wenn ich es dreihundert mal sagen muss was an dem Spiel und an 22cans Schrott ist so tue ich das And in 22 different languages too if you have to. このゲームの酷さは全部のみんなに教えないといけない！ |
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Post by Qetesh on May 19, 2014 21:23:39 GMT
Do they use exclamation points? LOL.
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Tau
Wannabe
Posts: 28
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Post by Tau on May 19, 2014 21:32:45 GMT
Do they use exclamation points? LOL. Not in older times, but since the westernization (is that even a word) its quite commonly used. ^^ Also for example: ～か is the indicator for a question and grammatically correct without a questionmark, but nowadays almost always accompanied by one. (Sorry for OT ^^ |
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Post by bed on May 19, 2014 21:49:37 GMT
I also just checked out the iTunes page itunes.apple.com/nz/app/godus/id815181808?mt=8144 reviews, 4.5 stars. Only three written comments. Who are we to blame 22cans, they have given the people what THEY want, they may have made a very successful f2p game. When viewing the app store on the web, it only *ever* shows the top three comments. If you view it in iTunes, and change the store to the NZ store (via the country flag in the bottom right of the page) and search for Godus you can see there are 44 reviews (and 146 ratings). Many many of the reviewer have never written a review before (you can click the reviewer name to see their review history) which does raise some potential red flags - it strikes me a bit odd for a game to get such attention in a small market with such little fan-fare - although Touch Arcade did cover the story and I suspect many non-NZ readers of TA have NZ app store accounts as its a common soft-launch target. We'll see how it all pans out! |
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ext3h
One Hit Wonder Fail
Posts: 2
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Post by ext3h on May 19, 2014 22:51:39 GMT
Just make sure to cover all the iOS-communities and to remember people that they should revise their rating if their game experience happens to change after 2-3 hours in game. Specifically the moment when the premium currency suddenly pops up in the UI for the first times and timers start to skyrocket.
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Post by julians on May 20, 2014 6:05:05 GMT
First I thought rubgish really makes some sense, we shouldn't be destructive (I never thought that I'm with Qetesh on this one, they basically stole our money and should be punished) we should help them, give them ideas and bug reports and communicate. Then I remembered. We already did that: before Alpha, during Alpha, during the crazy period where 22Cans got pissy and stopped talking to Alpha backers for 3 months because we wouldn't let them sell off Alpha access, during early beta, during the 5 month silence when Godus was supposedly being recoded from ground up (yea right, and by that time most of us already gave up anyway). And every time we're met with the same wall of silence of same PR bullshit.
And no Godus is not a good mobile game, it's a shitty mobile game (just because most mobile games are shit doesn't make them good). It's barely medicore F2P mobile game. Want good mobile games. Wold of Goo somebody mentioned, Waking Mars, Smallworld 2, Pulse, Anomaly Warzone Earth, Osmos, Cogs, Frozen Synapse, Greed Corp, Ticket To Ride. Want a good mobile game, just follow humble bundle and wait for android bundle.
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Post by rubgish on May 20, 2014 7:29:18 GMT
It is somewhat different now, in that we don't have Sam and instead have 3 people working on community stuff. I can't help but think that if they didn't want to get any community feedback at all, they wouldn't have bothered to hire the new people. I don't know this for sure, but it could well be that a lot of our problems with getting points across in the previous months may have been due to Sam not properly passing on our feedback.
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on May 20, 2014 8:32:56 GMT
I doubt it. Many things we requested could have been done in a short amount of time. Heavily reducing timers is nothing else than changing a few numbers in a file, for example.
Also, why can't peter or jack just read the forum themselves or the eurogamer articles? Other indie developers are a small team of less than 10 devs without a community manager, and they do so much better in terms of communication.
You also forget that they not only fail to understand our feedback, they completely fail to give us any form of answers.
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Post by julians on May 20, 2014 8:35:53 GMT
I'm just one person, with a full time job and I can easily follow 3 Godus forums. I started to ignore the feature and bug reports after it was clear to me that they go straight to the bin. But even if I were to follow all feature discussions it probably wouldn't take me a whole day. I could keep going but you know what if you want to believe 22Cans have changed feel free. I've seen this too many times, a couple with Sam, Mathew and George. We're sorry we didn't listen, we have a lot on our plate but we'll start blog updates that will be faster to write. We're sorry but it's just too much time from development, we'll start a twitter messages from devs. So on and so on. I've seen a lot people defend 22Cans back in the begging then fewer and fewer more. And now most of them are on this forum.
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