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Post by banned on Aug 15, 2014 2:06:38 GMT
I am going off Peters commentary that they will join you if you are happier then them. I have not gotten to that point and assume they breed true like the old bearded follower and such. My though was that it could be an evil choice to "breed slaves" that I could toss into the pit to make my people happy. Feanix, I have not tried it yet to see what happens when someone jumps in. The basic item is not to bad it fits with the rest of the world. Maybe little burst of flames shooting out of it or smoke from time to time might be cool. If I think of it tonight I will throw a couple people in and see what happens and get back to you on that. They don't breed. They don't contribute belief. They don't farm. They are just bumps on a log taking up precious living space. As soon as I can I plan to obliterate the blighters; can't decide if I want to PoD them of FoG them. Option A nets me gems at the potential cost of happiness. Option B wastes belief, but would rid me of thier presence imediately. I already put some blighted swamp in thier ceremonial circle. I really wish they had been more thoroughly thought out and implemented to be more than a catalyst for another paywall scheme. So an allegory for 22cans. Got it.
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Post by Deth on Aug 15, 2014 13:40:02 GMT
I know in one of these treads it was asked for out thoughts on the look of the Pit when sacrificing, but for the life of me I can not find it again So I will put it here. I finally sacrificed someone last night. I never thought I would say that, but I liked how the followers climbed up it. I do think it needs to be bigger to be more imposing, I would double the size myself. As I said before I would like a little wisp of smoke coming out of it. That is one thing that I think is missing from the world is movement. We have it with the water and the storm, but other wise everything is very static now. Maybe once you get the lighten fixed and add back wolves and hopefully other animals it will help.
As to the sacrificing it's self I like how the follower climbs the stair and jumps in. I hope once moral looks are added in if your a more evil god it would be cool to have someone or people pushing them in or laying them on the table, if your good I would be cool with people jumping but still having a priest beside to officiate would be nice.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 15, 2014 15:57:28 GMT
I just did some remoddeling on my Pit of Doom - I blocked off the path directly opposite the staircase, making the followers coming from "the north" and higher regions come in from the right side and all the followers coming from "the south" which is the sandy fields come in through the left side.
I'm still tweaking, but I've noticed significantly LESS blockage, as followers coming from opposite sides will happily queue ahead and occupy the same line into the Pit of Doom, whereas the one coming from a 90 degree angle will "block off" anyone coming from his left or right.
Effectively followers either need to come from completely opposite directions OR they need to follow the 'same' line else they will block eachother.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 16, 2014 15:55:52 GMT
Um, my followers keep leaving the line. I tried sending two at a time - they get there, then turn around and go back home... Sometimes they don't even get to the PoD before they turn around. If it wasn't for the torches lighting up, I'd say it was a targeting issue. Seems to happen about 60% of the time. PM: "Thanks for wasting your time expending belief. Hope you enjoy the game!"
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jpw
Master
Posts: 159
Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
Managing settlements
Not being a god in a god game
Chests
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Post by jpw on Aug 16, 2014 16:01:25 GMT
So, having now sacrificed a few of my own followers, there is the crazy 1hr timer, but when that runs down, and I then send out a builder from that abode, the timer is 1hr again... is that deliberate? That house now will repopulate extra slowly no matter where the followers are sent?
Or bug?
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Post by Danjal on Aug 16, 2014 16:40:40 GMT
Um, my followers keep leaving the line. I tried sending two at a time - they get there, then turn around and go back home... Sometimes they don't even get to the PoD before they turn around. If it wasn't for the torches lighting up, I'd say it was a targeting issue. Seems to happen about 60% of the time. PM: "Thanks for wasting your time expending belief. Hope you enjoy the game!" They keep leaving the line? Do you mean when you try to add more to the Pit of Doom congaline the others leave? This is because you've moused over them and 'unselected' their leash (a very poor mechanic, since you HAVE TO send them to the base of the stairs or they'll just ignore the pit of doom entirely, walk near it and then return home having seen the other sods jump to their doom). I suggest either sending them in batches or try to manouvre your cursor around the congaline.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 16, 2014 16:41:33 GMT
So, having now sacrificed a few of my own followers, there is the crazy 1hr timer, but when that runs down, and I then send out a builder from that abode, the timer is 1hr again... is that deliberate? That house now will repopulate extra slowly no matter where the followers are sent? Or bug? The timer depends on the size of the building. The larger the abode, the longer the timer. Hint: size one abodes on beachfront property only have a 15 minute timer =P
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Post by dozvati on Aug 16, 2014 17:00:21 GMT
So, having now sacrificed a few of my own followers, there is the crazy 1hr timer I recommend only using sand huts to sacrifice, the timer is ~17 minutes, and if you send them in groups, you can quickly have a continuous cycle.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 16, 2014 17:12:32 GMT
Um, my followers keep leaving the line. I tried sending two at a time - they get there, then turn around and go back home... Sometimes they don't even get to the PoD before they turn around. If it wasn't for the torches lighting up, I'd say it was a targeting issue. Seems to happen about 60% of the time. PM: "Thanks for wasting your time expending belief. Hope you enjoy the game!" They keep leaving the line? Do you mean when you try to add more to the Pit of Doom congaline the others leave? This is because you've moused over them and 'unselected' their leash (a very poor mechanic, since you HAVE TO send them to the base of the stairs or they'll just ignore the pit of doom entirely, walk near it and then return home having seen the other sods jump to their doom). I suggest either sending them in batches or try to manouvre your cursor around the congaline. Yeah, thanks for pointing it out - although I came back to post that I had realized that was what was happening. Very poor mechanic indeed - well, not a poor mechanic, just not well done; games like C&C, Starcraft, and good ol' Warcraft have been doing it better since the 90's... hell, even Dune II and Dune 2000 had better selecting and those games were buggy as heck. As for targeting the destination, it's really terribly implemented; they need to actually make it select the target (e.g. place a selection circle and/or highlight around the spot/structure) so you know you've properly selected it.
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jpw
Master
Posts: 159
Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
Managing settlements
Not being a god in a god game
Chests
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Post by jpw on Aug 16, 2014 23:49:30 GMT
So, having now sacrificed a few of my own followers, there is the crazy 1hr timer, but when that runs down, and I then send out a builder from that abode, the timer is 1hr again... is that deliberate? That house now will repopulate extra slowly no matter where the followers are sent? Or bug? The timer depends on the size of the building. The larger the abode, the longer the timer. Hint: size one abodes on beachfront property only have a 15 minute timer =P Surely you should only be penalised for those you send to the pit.
If I send out a builder why should I have to wait 60min to replace him? He is living next door, he didn't jump in the pit - you followers get over it already, I needed gems, if you want to make anyone irate go and hassle PM.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 17, 2014 0:01:54 GMT
I've yet to find out the logic or reasoning behind this scaling. All I do know is that this is the system used in mobile and facebook games. You might have heard of Maffia Wars on facebook and mobile? (just one of the many examples that shows this aswell). You get access to buildings producing resources on a timer. Smaller versions produce less per run, but tick by faster. Larger versions produce more per run and tick by slower. Often the math is in favor of the smaller buildings. Meaning the more often you collect, the more you end up getting for your time. However, since most players can't collect every 15 minutes, but instead play in 15 min sessions every few hours (coffee breaks etc). It becomes more favorable to go with a larger structure. If you're someone that can only play at home, when you wake up, when you get home and right before you go to bed. The larger 8 hour or 12 hour timers become the best. I can only assume that 22cans took over this method from their friendly advisors on DeNA, who happened to provide them with these suggestions out of their infinite wisdom of creating such wonderful games before. Long story short - yes, you should not be punished. Instead you should not be playing the game at all. You should 'gently stroke it' every few hours. I'm not sure if any of you have ever heard of 'zen gardens'? (I'm 100% certain that this is where his concept of 'zen-like' comes from and have been for quite a while.) But this seems to be the concept that Peter is going for. A relaxing and slow engagement that supposedly brings peace and quiet to the mind and body. Suffice it to say - in an attempt to create something like this: Peter barely managed to create this instead:
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jpw
Master
Posts: 159
Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
Managing settlements
Not being a god in a god game
Chests
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Post by jpw on Aug 17, 2014 0:06:42 GMT
Did you mean this?
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Post by Danjal on Aug 17, 2014 0:10:34 GMT
Yea, pretty much - they come in a ton of shapes and sizes. And the principle behind them (aswell as the end result of some) is pretty interesting. But its not something you can force onto people, especially not with ridiculously frustrating timers. Thats like beating on someone with a spiked club and telling them to relax and not get so angry. I think Peter is the empty bag of dorito's in an otherwise functional world. Out of place, and ruining things for his surroundings by not fitting in and not really understanding what is going on.
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Post by banned on Aug 17, 2014 15:44:02 GMT
harder to monetize and they have no intention of any actual effort in design.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 17, 2014 15:58:08 GMT
Monetization options for a temple of worship: - Unique temple skins to be sold similar to flags. - Temple has limited number of worship slots, additional slots/temples obtained through gems. - Temple functions very slowly, can speed it up using gems. - "Free" bonus temple(s) when buying larger gem packages.
The options are there if they want them to be. There is no reason why this couldn't be monetized if they so desired.
The trick with monetization (the right way) is to do it in such a way that the player feels it isn't necessary, but that they choose to use it. Monetization that is a hurdle that otherwise isn't really possible to overcome (and yes, waiting 48+ hours falls under that catagory) never works on the long run since most of your potential customers will give up and move on to another more friendly F2P/mobile title.
The only way to keep your players interested is to make sure the game is interested and the game SEEMS possible to do or even actually IS possible to do at a normal pace without the usage of gems. The whole Candy Crush example is perfect. Candy Crush makes the player feel like they are able to do it, if only they had a FEW more seconds, if only they did it JUST THAT LITTLE BIT BETTER. Lacking that tiny sliver - instead of saying "No, you fail, you have to take hours now to continue unless you hand over your wallet."
What 22cans is doing here is the equivalent of a thug robbing every single person they see on the street. And sooner or later the people will know better than to walk through your alleyway. Proper monetization is more like a hacker or fraudulent employee who nibbles a teeny-tiny fraction of money off of every single transfer. Not visible on its own, but due to the large number of transfers you end up with a large amount of money at the end of the cycle. By the time people realize what is going on, you're long gone enjoying your retirement fund on some tropical island.
Which is to say, the more abusive and in your face you are about it, the faster people will stop bothering with you. But if you make them think you're not there and that they're actually enjoying themselves for real, they'll stick around and keep the engine running.
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Post by banned on Aug 17, 2014 16:35:12 GMT
"No, you fail, unless you hand over your wallet." has just been placed on the wall at 22cans as their new company motto.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 17, 2014 17:43:23 GMT
What we have looks pretty, but because of the inclusion of the Pit of Doom, the game now essentially revolves around ritual sacrifice. Good job, everyone...
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 18, 2014 18:42:38 GMT
What we have looks pretty, but because of the inclusion of the Pit of Doom, the game now essentially revolves around ritual sacrifice. Good job, everyone... [ AND IN ADDITION; [Yes, I quoted myself] Think about how cyclically ridiculous the game (with the inclusion of the PoD) really is; players flatten land so followers can make houses, exchange followers for gems, gems for belief/wheat to speed up gameplay, just to flatten land to increase population, and repeat the cycle infinitely for absolutely... er, what? That's not a hobby, that's pointless insanity. And don't even try to compare it to Minecraft; because even that open ended sandbox game has an end game. Minecraft has more complexity hidden under it's charming simplicity, and it's evident in the first few minutes of gameplay. To get Godus to that level is going to require a change in direction, and a more clearly focused and solid central core. It's not there yet, and it's unlikely to ever reach that level. Even the original Populous had more depth. It can be accomplished, or could have been, had we not gone down the dark path we've found ourselves upon.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 18, 2014 18:50:32 GMT
Don't forget another difference in Minecraft Notch doesn't tell you what to do. You can build up, down sideways, and any other method you can think of aswell as in any possible combination. On top of that Minecraft offers you a box of tools and toys to mess around with and when you're done with all of that Minecraft offers you the keys to the castle so you can modify the game to great lengths...
Godus on the other hand does its best to limit you in all ways, afraid that you might actually ENJOY yourself rather than focusing on the games main component. Timers. Because timers put emphasis on the zen-like nature of Godus.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 18, 2014 18:55:28 GMT
Don't forget another difference in Minecraft Notch doesn't tell you what to do. You can build up, down sideways, and any other method you can think of aswell as in any possible combination. On top of that Minecraft offers you a box of tools and toys to mess around with and when you're done with all of that Minecraft offers you the keys to the castle so you can modify the game to great lengths... Godus on the other hand does its best to limit you in all ways, afraid that you might actually ENJOY yourself rather than focusing on the games main component. Timers. Because timers put emphasis on the zen-like nature of Godus. If I wanted a Zen-like experience, I wouldn't sit playing a game - I'd go outside. Besides, if he wanted to make a game that was a reflection of Zen, that attempted to provide that experience and expose people to the juxtaposition of life, he should have said so in the Kickstarter and not sold it as a God game reminiscent of Populous… that was his first major error in judgement, and it's all gone to pot since then. He's just trying to rake around the chip bag now.
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