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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 14, 2014 11:14:46 GMT
Bingo, that's exactly right. Nope, it still makes no sense. CrumpySix, think for a second what your suggesting, Your saying that their is a NDA which forbids you from disclosing the T&C to put an app on the App store. But hang on what is the barrier to entry to register as a developer on the App Store? Their aren't any, you don't even need to know how to program... Thus why would you have a NDA to protect info that anyone can access anyway?
In fact if you think about it you need to see the T&C before agreeing to them, thus the T&C are in the public domain as if you click No you are not bound by any conditions and can discuss them to your heart content. You can't protect info via a NDA which you have already put in the public domain as it's public knowledge and thus you can't suffer and loss from my disclosure as you have already disclosed it...
So on reflection, their argument isn't really standing up to scrutiny.
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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 14, 2014 11:40:16 GMT
Every company has a policy of not commenting stuff. Why? because if you comment on things especially deign them then when you hit the "no comment" button everyone knows their is a story behind that rumour...
It's classic... Q: "Are you being taken over by Citi" A: "no" Q "Are you being taken over by Well?" A "No" Q "Are you being taken over by Barclays?" A "No comment"
City AM headline tomorrow: "shttyBank are being taken over by Barclays..."
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 14, 2014 11:42:46 GMT
Every company has a policy of not commenting stuff. Why? because if you comment on things especially deign them then when you hit the "no comment" button everyone knows their is a story behind that rumour...
It's classic... Q: "Are you being taken over by Citi" A: "no" Q "Are you being taken over by Well?" A "No" Q "Are you being taken over by Barclays?" A "No comment"
City AM headline tomorrow: "shttyBank are being taken over by Barclays..."
...snip |
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Post by greay on Aug 14, 2014 11:45:07 GMT
Just to nit-pick, but that's not the right quote to support your argument – that's purely about Apple products – i.e. they won't answer any questions or give any release dates for future Apple products. The NDA and confidentiality agreement is there in the developer agreement, though. I don't personally know how that affects the limited (NZ) release, but this is all pretty standard as far as I know so I have no reason to doubt anything you've said. You guys were put in a sticky situation because of the pre-existing PC release, and maybe the case could be made that that changed things... but whatever, it's over with now. Point is, not being able to do publicity for an app while it's in limited release (soft launch) is perfectly normal and happens all the time. |
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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 14, 2014 11:48:46 GMT
Every company has a policy of not commenting stuff. Why? because if you comment on things especially deign them then when you hit the "no comment" button everyone knows their is a story behind that rumour...
It's classic... Q: "Are you being taken over by Citi" A: "no" Q "Are you being taken over by Well?" A "No" Q "Are you being taken over by Barclays?" A "No comment"
City AM headline tomorrow: "shttyBank are being taken over by Barclays..."
...snip So you have just proved CrumpySix wrong? Their is no NDA which forbids you from discussing the T&C for app store and so their should be no issue with you telling us which section it says you can't discuss the PC (or any other) version of a iOS game that you are doing a limited release on via the App Store.
BTW better get yourself off to A&E, that gunshot wound in your foot looks bad! 
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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 14, 2014 11:57:20 GMT
I skim read it for you:
5: This relates to apple confidential material. This looks to covers thing's like API's, overview doc's... I.e. N/a
6: This covers Pre-release stuff but again seem to be focused on Apple pre-relese software not vendor. I.e. Apple send you iOS XYZ to do testing a few month before general release. I.e. N/a
7: N/A
8: N/A
9: Standard "We can change the rules when we like and you can go hang..." N/A
10: N/A
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 14, 2014 12:01:21 GMT
You said there was no barrier to entry to publishing games on the iOS App Store. I just demonstrated that's factually inaccurate and shared the T&Cs that are in the public domain. End of, IMHO. So you have just proved CrumpySix wrong? Their is no NDA which forbids you from discussing the T&C for app store and so their should be no issue with you telling us which section it says you can't discuss the PC (or any other) version of a iOS game that you are doing a limited release on via the App Store.
BTW better get yourself off to A&E, that gunshot wound in your foot looks bad! ...snip |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 14, 2014 12:03:58 GMT
...snip
Also Danjal, I apologise - that was very unfair calling you out like that. To tell the truth, I was looking for a way to lock that thread so it'd get bumped down the forum. I wanted to live up to my promise and get the word out, but I'm also worried that revealing such details would negatively impact our business-to-business relationships. So yes, that was a really shitty move and I was merely trying to cover my own arse - sincere apologies, you deserved better. What can I say? I can be a selfish cunt sometimes. Sorry. And this, in my opinion, is why Godus is going to have difficulties becoming the commercial success you guys seem to want it to be. Not accounting for the unpredictable behaviour of mobile players (seriously those folks play the strangest games for a long time only to just stop as suddenly as they took interest...), the only way for Godus to become a commercial success is to take the player more serious. Something that to this date hasn't happened and something that more and more reviews are pointing out. To me, its not a surprise that so many reviews point out many of the flaws we've been pointing out since day 1. But yea, the fact that Peter seems to claim that his primary role as a designer is to think about money/profitability (rather than trying to create a proper game first and foremost) and the fact that the priority to uphold B2B relations is put so far above the relations with the actual players and customers is going to prove to be a problem. Afterall, while you might need some businesses at times, you will ALWAYS need your customers and you're alienating those as a company. As for that last bit, I think I've remarked on the 'technicalities' in relation to Godus before? I've always been of the opinion that if you do not mean something, you are better off just letting it go. Meaning that fullfilling a promise on a technicality is about as usefull/worthless as not fullfilling it at all. You can fullfill things in spirit or fullfill them to the letter. If you're only going to do the latter to get yourself out from under your obligations. Priorities can get skewed at times I suppose? TL;DR - Just another reason not to put too much value in the words coming from the cans, and demand actions instead. (Also, another confirmation for my 'goodwill' reasoning.) Also, I have no problems with you being a selfish cunt at times - I know that I myself can be quite a dick to people from time to time. People are who they are. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 14, 2014 12:07:36 GMT
Bingo, that's exactly right. Nope, it still makes no sense. CrumpySix, think for a second what your suggesting, Your saying that their is a NDA which forbids you from disclosing the T&C to put an app on the App store. But hang on what is the barrier to entry to register as a developer on the App Store? Their aren't any, you don't even need to know how to program... Thus why would you have a NDA to protect info that anyone can access anyway?
In fact if you think about it you need to see the T&C before agreeing to them, thus the T&C are in the public domain as if you click No you are not bound by any conditions and can discuss them to your heart content. You can't protect info via a NDA which you have already put in the public domain as it's public knowledge and thus you can't suffer and loss from my disclosure as you have already disclosed it...
So on reflection, their argument isn't really standing up to scrutiny. I'm sorry, I'm not intimiately familiar with the T&Cs 22Cans signed up to so I can't really directly address this. It may simply be that Apple want to close the possible loophole whereby devs could promote their app through discussion of the rule forbidding them promoting their app, which is probably the main factor here. Edit: while I was typing this, obviously at the rate of a 90 year old arthritic woman, loads of posts happened. Regarding whether George has contradicted me in discussion of the T&Cs, Muumipeikko, I would take his word over mine. |
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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 14, 2014 12:29:28 GMT
But yea, the fact that Peter seems to claim that his primary role as a designer is to think about money/profitability (rather than trying to create a proper game first and foremost) and the fact that the priority to uphold B2B relations is put so far above the relations with the actual players and customers is going to prove to be a problem. Afterall, while you might need some businesses at times, you will ALWAYS need your customers and you're alienating those as a company. You have hit the nail on the head with what is wrong with 22Can's. We all know their are games companies like Zenga and EA where MBA's sit around the table with the games designers and think how can we make a game to rip off as many people for an much money as possible as quickly as possible then their are good game developers where their is a balance. We all though and were sold that Peter was the "Good" god in the meeting wanting to produce as good a game as possible and the other Peter? (CFO) was the "Bad" god saying you F'ing game designers need to wise up and smell the coffee, this game need's to make money as well... An argument would ensue and a balance would be made between a great game and a monetization from the game.
Instead what we got was a Zenga model where everyone around the table had one objective, How can we make as much money from this game in as shorter time as possible and no one actually cared about the game itself. The game in a way was secondary to the monetization model.
So instead of a game being designed and then working out how to monetize it I suspect the early design sessions consisted of a brain storming "What can we sell in the game", "How little of it can we give away before the camel's back breaks?" then everyone went away to think how they could incorporate that object into the game so they could ultimately limit it and sell it... Peters: "I like stickers" could be read as "I like stickers as they are a second order derivative of money which is the thing I really like" (Money -> Gems->Stickers).
Ever noticed how whenever you run out of belief the 10k belief card magically suggests itself. This is a classic example of "designed to sell mythology" i.e. "Sir you seem to be stuck, why don't you buy this to progress?". "Sir you seem to be a little short of Gem's why don't you insert you long card number here..."
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 14, 2014 12:34:12 GMT
Due to the request of Monkeythumbz all content that he feels could put him in any jeopardy has been removed. This forum is open and uncensored but we also do not want any member of 22cans to feel by being frank they have endangered their way of putting food on the table.
This is not a debate about whether or not said content is actually doing so since the only content they will be removed is any that was posted by Monkeythumbz himself. Monkeythumbz would like to invite anyone to PM him directly if they have further questions about the subject.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 14, 2014 12:43:29 GMT
Due to the request of Monkeythumbz all content that he feels could put him in any jeopardy has been removed. This forum is open and uncensored but we also do not want any member of 22cans to feel by being frank they have endangered their way of putting food on the table. This is not a debate about whether or not said content is actually doing so since the only content they will be removed is any that was posted by Monkeythumbz himself. Monkeythumbz would like to invite anyone to PM him directly if they have further questions about the subject. Good job my lady. Finally you're earning your admin spurs.  |
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 14, 2014 12:45:56 GMT
Due to the request of Monkeythumbz all content that he feels could put him in any jeopardy has been removed. This forum is open and uncensored but we also do not want any member of 22cans to feel by being frank they have endangered their way of putting food on the table. This is not a debate about whether or not said content is actually doing so since the only content they will be removed is any that was posted by Monkeythumbz himself. Monkeythumbz would like to invite anyone to PM him directly if they have further questions about the subject. Good job my lady. Finally you're earning your admin spurs. LOL, I have to say, we have such great posters that seldom is any Admin acts ever needed. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 14, 2014 13:05:14 GMT
Well damn, I missed a good one, it looks like. The drawbacks of living in California, I suppose.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 14, 2014 13:05:59 GMT
Well damn, I missed a good one, it looks like. The drawbacks of living in California, I suppose. There are drawbacks? I figure this is the only one! |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 14, 2014 13:08:57 GMT
Well damn, I missed a good one, it looks like. The drawbacks of living in California, I suppose. There are drawbacks? I figure this is the only one! This, the occasional earthquake and nearly yearly 'oh shit my state is on fire' thing. |
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 14, 2014 13:13:10 GMT
There are drawbacks? I figure this is the only one! This, the occasional earthquake and nearly yearly 'oh shit my state is on fire' thing. How bout Arnold? I half thought at one point they would change the Constitution for him and let him run for Obama's job. |
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Post by dozvati on Aug 14, 2014 13:14:20 GMT
I wasn't around to be playing Godus while this press embargo thing was going on, but I'm not surprised. I trust Apple a hell of a lot less than 22Cans.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 14, 2014 13:20:05 GMT
How bout Arnold? I half thought at one point they would change the Constitution for him and let him run for Obama's job. Maybe. Constitution's an amendable document and all, but there's a let's say sizable run of xenophobia on a national level that would prevent anything like that happening in the near future. His run as Governor was short and, surprisingly, not a total disaster relative to normal CA politics. Now we're back to Jerry Brown. Again. When he dies, we'll probably clone him just to keep throwing him in the office for some reason. |
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 14, 2014 13:30:06 GMT
How bout Arnold? I half thought at one point they would change the Constitution for him and let him run for Obama's job. Maybe. Constitution's an amendable document and all, but there's a let's say sizable run of xenophobia on a national level that would prevent anything like that happening in the near future. His run as Governor was short and, surprisingly, not a total disaster relative to normal CA politics. Now we're back to Jerry Brown. Again. When he dies, we'll probably clone him just to keep throwing him in the office for some reason. He sounds like what Delaware did with Biden for years, now the man is VP. I won't go any further into politics but I would mention that perhaps I choose the wrong field of expertise at some point in my life's career path. |
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