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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 11, 2014 13:50:27 GMT
George posted this on the Steam forum earlier, but made it clear the thread is likely to be locked as it is considered to have "absolutely zero to do with Godus as a game". So I thought I'd repost it here.
The reasons I was unable to talk about the update in granular detail prior to release were threefold: 1: Games that are in limited launch on iOS are not permitted to carry our marketing and/or PR activity prior to their worldwide release. This restricted any/all information about the update we were developing during the period from May 16th to August 8th, including the PC version as the two platforms play pretty much identically at present. This affects all iOS games that conduct a limited launch phase on the iOS App Store. For example, much of the blog that was published on Friday was written in mid-June, as that's when the design work was starting to be implemented. However due to concerns that this would be seen as promoting a game while in limited launch, we could only talk about our ideas without detailing specifics gameplay developments, hence the philosophy article and the what's missing article. Obviously, this was not good for 22cans as it meant that community frustrations with us were compounded, but6 it was definitely what was best for the game. 2. We we had to observe a press embargo for reviews timed to the worldwide release of the iOS version. Again, this meant that all the details about the Settlement update, the Astari, the new farming/mining mechanics etc had to be kept on the down low. Going out with those details in advance would have rendered any review coverage as no longer being newsworthy, thus negatively impacting launch coverage. In the end, we were able to find a reprieve in that any changes in graphics wouldn't be a core part of any reviews that would be published, which is why we were able to share details about those changes last week. Again, this was good for the game in that it would receive a greater amount of exposure timed to launch and increase awareness of the game, however it was bad for the studio as it meant we were unable to share our ideas with you in advance, thus leading to further accusations of not being open/honest/transparent or just plain misleading. It also meant that we weren't able to gauge the response to planned features prior to implementation, invariably leading to more work for us down the line. 3. In order to meet both of the above criteria, it meant that we couldn't release the Settlements revamp to the Opt-in branch of Steam in advance of the worldwide release on mobile. This was especially limiting as it would have been great to have given PC players, who are without question the most vocal members of the Godus community, a chance to play with the new features and functions first as that would have led to increased feelings of inclusion and value. As it was, we went out with details of the iOS version first which, as anyone whose seen the comments on our Kickstarter updates can attest, fostered a lot of negativity and resentment towards 22cans, so it wasn't great for the company. It was, however, good for the game as it gave the release on iOS the best possible chance to be highlighted both by the media as the content was previously unseen and also by Apple in their Editor's pick, which despite what you may think cannot be bought or influenced in any way, thus substantially increasing the game's visibility with new potential players. These are the facts of what happened. None of the above is unusual or even irregular when it comes to the development and duistrubuition of videogames - this is reflective of standard industry-wide tendencies and practices. As such, I don't think that discussion of this issue is any way helpful to the development of either the game or the Godus community and would invariably lead to melodramatic arguments over actions that do not directly concern gameplay. Therefore, I will lock this thread if such non-constructive arguments occur. Rest assured with the good news being that now we have launched worldwide, the reviews are out of the way and the coverage all online, there's no reason I can think as to why we would ever have to go dark in our communications again. That means from this point forwards, we should be in a position to share granular details of any work-in-progress developments for the game, as well as our intentions for upcoming content/features/functions. This makes me wonder why we were ever told that PC gamers would get the Settlements update first, since this was obviously never going to be a possibility. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 11, 2014 14:02:49 GMT
Well. That's all perfectly sensible.
I will say, I think the biggest mistake they've made in this regard is, it would have been extremely easy to have explained this back in, oh I don't know, May, instead of constantly referring to unspecified 'reasons'. All that did was seed angst and vitriol. I really am constantly amazed at how this company operates, on so many levels. They are just so bad at communication in such bizarre, perplexing, seemingly very avoidable ways.
Also, this part "there's no reason I can think as to why we would ever have to go dark in our communications again" - if you're reading this, George, I sincerely hope that holds, and doesn't come back to bite you.
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 11, 2014 14:21:13 GMT
I can dig this explanation.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 11, 2014 14:26:50 GMT
I will say, I think the biggest mistake they've made in this regard is, it would have been extremely easy to have explained this back in, oh I don't know, May, instead of constantly referring to unspecified 'reasons'. All that did was seed angst and vitriol. I really am constantly amazed at how this company operates, on so many levels. They are just so bad at communication in such bizarre, perplexing, seemingly very avoidable ways. I agree. I don't understand why they couldn't just say "we aren't allowed to do any PR or marketing before the global iOS launch and we also have to observe a press embargo". The CMs were insisting that not only could they not tell us anything, but they also couldn't tell us WHY they couldn't tell us. I don't see that revealing this information would have broken any NDAs or contracts. Inevitably it would have led to negative reactions along the lines of "as usual the mobile release takes top priority at the expense of PC gamers" but that's par for course with Godus and has happened anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 14:53:55 GMT
I feel like trapped in a loop. Ok, the explanation makes sense, from a business view ... but all that are things that a video games company with some kind of experience should have known before doing a kickstarter and telling everybody how open their development will be.
In fact they did exactly the same thing for the third time now.
1. (Alpha) No updates for 3 month -> release on Steam Early Access
2. (Beta ... no wait ... it's another Alpha, the one after the first) No Updates for many month (complete overhaul - reworked from ground up) -> soft Launch on iOS
3. (next Alpha) No Updates for months -> official release on iOS
Yes, it makes sense, if you want to hide your game from people (who most likely wouldn't be very impressed by it) until you feed the press with nice empty phrases, nice pictures and funky trailers with more funky shadows and much more funky dynamic water.
And even if they could not tell us that they could not tell us about the game they could have told us that they could not tell us because of these reasons. But, hey ... silence ... worked before ... works again, why not. What's the next release? Android?
By the way, in which state is Godus now? Alpha?
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Post by neonero on Aug 11, 2014 15:00:04 GMT
will now the opt in builds start again?
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 11, 2014 15:02:20 GMT
will now the opt in builds start again? If past behaviour is a reliable predictor of future behaviour (which it almost always is) then no. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 15:08:05 GMT
this is bullshit this decision had so many to do with the development! GK makes it to easy for him cause of that bs we were not able to get the opt in before and they forgot that they started an freakin Kickstarter Project that means you have to be open hearted ect. in my opinion These press Reviews will not help them cause there is the pc Version that is nothing else then a fraud and it doesnt matter if later this year the pc sprint Comes
i would more and better argument since my english is bad as hell i stop here
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 11, 2014 15:34:36 GMT
I understand the reasoning outlined in that post, thoug I too don't understand why they couldn't tell us why they couldn't share details of the design and development in regards to mobile; I cannot see how doing so would have been against any contract. It's puzzling.
This is yet another example of how far they've strayed from the Kickstarter;
Doesn't seem like "staying independent" worked out.
It's a sad mess they're in, and although I feel for them it's all thier own doing.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 11, 2014 16:44:17 GMT
A shame to see Danjal's logical and reasoned post in that thread dismissed as "melodramatic". Excuse me for also cross-posting here, Danjal.
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Post by morsealworth on Aug 11, 2014 18:01:09 GMT
I can dig this explanation. I can dig some graves if you need. |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 11, 2014 18:07:53 GMT
A shame to see Danjal's logical and reasoned post in that thread dismissed as "melodramatic". Excuse me for also cross-posting here, Danjal. No problem whatsoever Grumpy - and I'm not surprised... It would appear to be that they want the Steam forums to be a very clean and non-negative location. So they'll just act like everyone who faces reality is being dramatic and overly negative. Afterall, it is the corporate way to sweep stuff under the rug and hope everyone forgets about it. If you just ignore it, it'll eventually just go away right? I'd like to believe that their claims of "it'll get there eventually" are true - but the reality is that we've been told that same old story for over a year now with very little to show for it. So they shouldn't think it is strange that some people actually fault them for this. Ultimately though, I think it is rather shameful that they went to kickstarter to get money, they then followed through by going into early access. And under the table they accepted a deal for mobile saying that "this has NOTHING to do with the PC release" only to be forced into silence by their deal with Apple. So effectively this 'mobile release' which is supposed to have no impact on the PC version whatsoever, is the very cause that PC got neglected and ignored. And their decisions along the way forced them into the NDA with their limited unlimited access iOS release. |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Aug 11, 2014 19:16:18 GMT
A shame to see Danjal's logical and reasoned post in that thread dismissed as "melodramatic". Excuse me for also cross-posting here, Danjal. No problem whatsoever Grumpy - and I'm not surprised... It would appear to be that they want the Steam forums to be a very clean and non-negative location. So they'll just act like everyone who faces reality is being dramatic and overly negative. Afterall, it is the corporate way to sweep stuff under the rug and hope everyone forgets about it. If you just ignore it, it'll eventually just go away right? I'd like to believe that their claims of "it'll get there eventually" are true - but the reality is that we've been told that same old story for over a year now with very little to show for it. So they shouldn't think it is strange that some people actually fault them for this. Ultimately though, I think it is rather shameful that they went to kickstarter to get money, they then followed through by going into early access. And under the table they accepted a deal for mobile saying that "this has NOTHING to do with the PC release" only to be forced into silence by their deal with Apple. So effectively this 'mobile release' which is supposed to have no impact on the PC version whatsoever, is the very cause that PC got neglected and ignored. And their decisions along the way forced them into the NDA with their limited unlimited access iOS release. That pretty much sums up my response to G.K. about the explanation. KS promised user input and transparency. SEA's stated purpose is to provide a means of allowing fans to take part in the development process of a project. Both of those expectations predate their taking the project to iOS and performing a limited release. If limited release to iOS meant a communication lockdown then it should have never been pushed at this time. They went into this knowing they would be breaking promises and skirting the purpose of SEA existing. It's all on their heads and none of it is Apple's fault. |
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Post by hardly on Aug 11, 2014 19:37:25 GMT
The root cause of the problem is the mobile development. If there was no mobile version, no F2P version then none of this would be an issue. Also why is the PC version just a cheap port of mobile? Why did they become so tied together in development? Why has Peter laced GODUS with frustration mechanics that he slammed other developer for using? These are more important questions. The point about why they couldn't say all this beforehand is also important.
I don't hate every aspect of the update. The problem is it's not balanced and F2P mechanics and waiting screw over any potential the game had. They've got to go back and rip out the gems, rip out the sticker packs, speed up the belief and then look at what else the game needs.
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Post by chrism on Aug 11, 2014 20:08:00 GMT
Why can't they just spit and polish Black & White or Populous and have done with it. Nice, easy simple and what I (at least) ever wanted.
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Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 11, 2014 20:09:22 GMT
Why can't they just spit and polish Black & White or Populous and have done with it. Nice, easy simple and what I (at least) ever wanted. I suspect because those games are now intellectual property of another company. Plus they wanted to do something new. But I agree that a spiritual successor to Populous the Beginning would have been completely and utterly awesome. |
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Post by Deth on Aug 11, 2014 20:15:57 GMT
Funny thing is I play Dungeon Keep on my phone from time to time and to me it is no where near in my face F2P as Godus. There is no flashing "Buy Gems" when I try to do something and do not have an Imp. It says, "Try pressing harder Keeper and you might make it work." or some such. Where as Godus keeps waving things in my face saying "Hey buy me with gems!" It is sad that the game Peter says he thinks is f2P done wrong, to me at least is done better then his game. I wonder if he is bitter that they took his baby way from him and did it with out him.
On Topic, I agree with others why did they not just tell us they wanted to do a press embargo. I can understand this and understand some would take it baddly no matter what but again it is better being open with us and say "Hey we want to build some hype for the mobile release, sorry PC fans, but this is not focused at you anyway but again you will get your day."
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 11, 2014 20:47:28 GMT
On topic, I agree with others; why did they not just tell us they wanted to do a press embargo. I can understand this and understand some would take it baddly no matter what but again it is better being open with us and say "Hey we want to build some hype for the mobile release, sorry PC fans, but this is not focused at you anyway but again you will get your day." I cannot fathom what possible reasoning they have in this decision, other than that there may have been some fine print in their agreement contract that forbid them from doing such (though I can't imagine why thay would be). Otherwise it's completely ludicrous to think that either it never occured to them to simply tell us why they couldn't, or that someone thought it was fine to keep us in the dark (again) without consequence. To be fair, George did say we wouldn't be happy with it, which at least hinted at the reason behind their decisions; and we essentially assumed correctly. |
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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 11, 2014 21:25:01 GMT
Remember, this is Peter running the project, a man who has us all labelled as idiots who will believe any crap he tells us... None of it makes since and as we say in the city if something makes no sense and sounds like BS then it's either complete BS or come from a regulator... I suspect you can file this in the former category...
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Post by earlparvisjam on Aug 11, 2014 21:36:02 GMT
"We weren't in a position where we were able to confirm the exact worldwide release date of Godus on iOS in advance due to point 1 in my answer. Announcing the fact that we had press coverage lined up would also have breached the same point." "My concern about referencing policies regarding games in limited launch on iOS could have negatively impacted our chance of receiving an App Store Editor's Pick." There you have it. The reason to not even explain why they can't talk about anything is that they were worried that even hinting at a worldwide mobile release would stir up discussion that could hurt their chances at getting an Editor's Pick on the App store. It wasn't a concern about breaching the marketing or pr restrictions but risk of negative responses to the announcement to a worldwide release might impacted their chances to get an Editor's Pick. Gee, a worldwide release is a shocking surprise to us. We're totally amazed by this stunning turn of events.  |
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