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Post by FuriousMoo on Dec 20, 2014 1:33:12 GMT
Wow that is way more frank than I expected a 22cans staff member to be. It is appreciated. GMR I think realistically we can kiss any non-instanced multiplayer good bye. I think we should pin our hopes on an improved single player game. Absolutely, I agree, and frankly I never bought that it was ever a realistic possibility with such a small team that seemed to display significant problems with coordinating development. Under a different lead/better coordinated team, I'd be tentatively more hopeful, but I always went into this thinking the multi would be standard, instanced stuff. I'm way more hopeful of the single-player being salvaged, which is why I'm a little curious as to what elements of it FuriousMoo has in mind as being recoverable from the original pitch. I've mentioned the story, but I'm not going to talk about anything else until it's actively being worked on at least, semi functioning and am confident can be shipped.
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Aron
Master
Posts: 125
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
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Post by Aron on Dec 20, 2014 10:17:30 GMT
The military settlements and archers are new too. The implementation is currently rather crude right now, but you'll be seeing rapid iterations as the systems are refined come the new year. This really isn't the end of the PC sprints either. We plan to focus heavily on the pc side starting January for an extended period of time, we can't ignore mobile as we have obligations to our publisher, but as far as I'm concerned pc will come first. sorry but you are wrong 22cans CANT ignore the backers
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Dec 20, 2014 11:49:07 GMT
I'll have you know doors are a big thing in video games: www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LizEngland/20140423/216092/quotThe_Door_Problemquot_of_Game_Design.phpI'm a designer, basically, the designer on the Godus team now. Peter will still be involved in Godus, but I've been given a lot of freedom in terms of the direction of the continued development for Godus. Before you ask, it should be pretty obvious not everyone at 22cans will be working on Godus anymore. It means our team will be smaller and there are less resources to untilise. However with the shift of focus it's still a net benefit to Godus pc in terms of attention, which I couldn't have seen happening if Trail wasn't a thing. We won't be rebuilding the game from the ground up, but have enough resources to implement change. Hold on to your skepticism, honestly I have doubts myself, time will indeed tell. Believe it or not I am an Idol level backer, I want the game that was pitched and I think there's opportunity now to move in that direction. Will it be exactly like the pitch? I can't see that happening, but there is still room for a good pc god game to be had. That's just my personal opinion anyway. So basically what you're saying is that Peter has abandoned the project and left it in your hands taking a chunk of the team with him to work on something else with the caveat of being able to jump back in at any time. I actually think this is a positive development because we all know now that Peter Molyneux stinks and has effectively ruined project Godus from the very beginning. I'll be keen to find out how many people you will have under you working on Godus and in which direction you'll be taking the development.
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World Stroking Simulator 2014™
Master
Oh hey, Godus, that was a thing. Yeah. *shakes head*
Posts: 143
Pledge level: Peter Molyneux's retirement fund
I like: Indy games. Also decent studio games.
I don't like: Guess...
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Post by World Stroking Simulator 2014™ on Dec 20, 2014 14:22:37 GMT
This vodka won't drink itself and my pants are long gone, what the hell guys
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Post by Danjal on Dec 20, 2014 15:07:46 GMT
Indeed, I myself was a backer before I joined 22cans and understand your frustrations. It is not my place to discuss the reasons for the direction of the development thus far, but what I can say is that we are now in a position where so long as we generate enough revenue from the mobile version (which is why it cannot be ignored), we can continue to develop with a pc focus. It's something a lot of us at 22cans have been wanting to do for a long time. Essentially what you have been seeing for a long time is mobile focus with trickle down to pc, we are reversing that direction. It seems strange to me that the decision was made to ask money for a godgame - a game that most backers imagined would be a PC game. Then with that money, make a mobile game. So that the mobile game can fund further development of the initially funded PC game. Wouldn't it have been far more cost-effective to make a decent PC game in the first place, bypass all the emotional trauma and actually get decent sales off of steam early access. Then take the profits and the game created there and convert it to a functional mobile facsimile?
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Post by Danjal on Dec 20, 2014 15:11:13 GMT
I'm a designer, basically, the designer on the Godus team now. Peter will still be involved in Godus, but I've been given a lot of freedom in terms of the direction of the continued development for Godus. I have one major recommendation - listen to Raspofabs - many of his idea's match well with what the backers and PC community expected Godus to become. And don't be too afraid of sharing information. Take an example of some of the fine Early Access titles out there such as Stonehearth or Starbound. You can provide information about upcoming features in such a fashion without making it a ball-and-chain like Peter has done in the past.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Dec 20, 2014 15:34:24 GMT
I'm a designer, basically, the designer on the Godus team now. Peter will still be involved in Godus, but I've been given a lot of freedom in terms of the direction of the continued development for Godus. I have one major recommendation - listen to Raspofabs - many of his idea's match well with what the backers and PC community expected Godus to become. And don't be too afraid of sharing information. Take an example of some of the fine Early Access titles out there such as Stonehearth or Starbound. You can provide information about upcoming features in such a fashion without making it a ball-and-chain like Peter has done in the past. I'm honoured that you think that, and I'd like to add that most of my ideas are doable by default because I always think about how to implement them. But the bad news is that I think I'm being poached for trail
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Post by Deth on Dec 20, 2014 16:00:42 GMT
Indeed, I myself was a backer before I joined 22cans and understand your frustrations. It is not my place to discuss the reasons for the direction of the development thus far, but what I can say is that we are now in a position where so long as we generate enough revenue from the mobile version (which is why it cannot be ignored), we can continue to develop with a pc focus. It's something a lot of us at 22cans have been wanting to do for a long time. Essentially what you have been seeing for a long time is mobile focus with trickle down to pc, we are reversing that direction. Well that just confirms that 22Cans fell into the over promise physical rewards trap of kickstarter for me. Thanks Moo. Just out of interest who are you and what is your official role at 22Cans. Apologies if that has been explained somewhere else.
I cant say I'm optimistic about your efforts but I certainly think there is honour in what you do so I wish you all the best.
Is Peter still actively involved in the design or has that been delegated now he is working on the Trail?
I'll have you know doors are a big thing in video games: www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LizEngland/20140423/216092/quotThe_Door_Problemquot_of_Game_Design.phpI'm a designer, basically, the designer on the Godus team now. Peter will still be involved in Godus, but I've been given a lot of freedom in terms of the direction of the continued development for Godus. Before you ask, it should be pretty obvious not everyone at 22cans will be working on Godus anymore. It means our team will be smaller and there are less resources to untilise. However with the shift of focus it's still a net benefit to Godus pc in terms of attention, which I couldn't have seen happening if Trail wasn't a thing. We won't be rebuilding the game from the ground up, but have enough resources to implement change. Hold on to your skepticism, honestly I have doubts myself, time will indeed tell. Believe it or not I am an Idol level backer, I want the game that was pitched and I think there's opportunity now to move in that direction. Will it be exactly like the pitch? I can't see that happening, but there is still room for a good pc god game to be had. That's just my personal opinion anyway. As for anyone else that comes to the boards from 22cans, welcome and and I will give you a fair chance. Luckily for us some that have come to visit have proven trust worthy in my eyes, at least. I look forward to see what can be saved and I will gladdly eat my hat if things are turned around.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 16:09:45 GMT
I have one major recommendation - listen to Raspofabs - many of his idea's match well with what the backers and PC community expected Godus to become. And don't be too afraid of sharing information. Take an example of some of the fine Early Access titles out there such as Stonehearth or Starbound. You can provide information about upcoming features in such a fashion without making it a ball-and-chain like Peter has done in the past. I'm honoured that you think that, and I'd like to add that most of my ideas are doable by default because I always think about how to implement them. But the bad news is that I think I'm being poached for trail I thought it's not in production?
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Post by FuriousMoo on Dec 20, 2014 16:43:06 GMT
I'll have you know doors are a big thing in video games: www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LizEngland/20140423/216092/quotThe_Door_Problemquot_of_Game_Design.phpI'm a designer, basically, the designer on the Godus team now. Peter will still be involved in Godus, but I've been given a lot of freedom in terms of the direction of the continued development for Godus. Before you ask, it should be pretty obvious not everyone at 22cans will be working on Godus anymore. It means our team will be smaller and there are less resources to untilise. However with the shift of focus it's still a net benefit to Godus pc in terms of attention, which I couldn't have seen happening if Trail wasn't a thing. We won't be rebuilding the game from the ground up, but have enough resources to implement change. Hold on to your skepticism, honestly I have doubts myself, time will indeed tell. Believe it or not I am an Idol level backer, I want the game that was pitched and I think there's opportunity now to move in that direction. Will it be exactly like the pitch? I can't see that happening, but there is still room for a good pc god game to be had. That's just my personal opinion anyway. So basically what you're saying is that Peter has abandoned the project and left it in your hands taking a chunk of the team with him to work on something else with the caveat of being able to jump back in at any time. I actually think this is a positive development because we all know now that Peter Molyneux stinks and has effectively ruined project Godus from the very beginning. I'll be keen to find out how many people you will have under you working on Godus and in which direction you'll be taking the development. It's not as simple as that, it's more like "Let's see what you can do". If things move in a positive direction Peter will be happy to let it ride. Production also has a major role in what gets worked on and when. As a designer, if I want to get something done, I need resources and for that I need to convince production it's what we should be working. The structure of the company is far more horizontal than vertical, I don't have anyone under me. Team size I cannot talk about right now as it has not been finalized, but as far as general direction, I'm most interested in working on the single player experience first. Converting from mobile feel to desktop feel is a big thing in my book. Then there's all the stuff from the kickstarter pitch. The backer rewards, things like the familiar, player statues etc. as well as promised features and stretch goals. We want to make best efforts in delivering these, some being a lot easier and more feasible than others.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Dec 20, 2014 16:53:23 GMT
I have one major recommendation - listen to Raspofabs - many of his idea's match well with what the backers and PC community expected Godus to become. And don't be too afraid of sharing information. Take an example of some of the fine Early Access titles out there such as Stonehearth or Starbound. You can provide information about upcoming features in such a fashion without making it a ball-and-chain like Peter has done in the past. I'm honoured that you think that, and I'd like to add that most of my ideas are doable by default because I always think about how to implement them. But the bad news is that I think I'm being poached for trail Noooooopoo!!!1! We need our 'fabs working on our game. We can start a petition if need be. Despite any differnces of opinion we may have about the development process at 22Cans, so far you're all fabulous people that we (at least I) feel still not only believe in what Godus can be, but you have great ideas that often align with thr community. You need to stay on Godus! or at least remain in some kind of dedign consulting poition with it.
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Post by FuriousMoo on Dec 20, 2014 17:00:52 GMT
I'm honoured that you think that, and I'd like to add that most of my ideas are doable by default because I always think about how to implement them. But the bad news is that I think I'm being poached for trail Noooooopoo!!!1! We need our 'fabs working on our game. We can start a petition if need be. Despite any differnces of opinion we may have about the development process at 22Cans, so far you're all fabulous people that we (at least I) feel still not only believe in what Godus can be, but you have great ideas that often align with thr community. I feel your efforts will be in vain, but don't worry I'll be talking to fabs and see how much of his brain work I can steal!
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Post by Crumpy Six on Dec 20, 2014 18:59:01 GMT
I have one major recommendation - listen to Raspofabs - many of his idea's match well with what the backers and PC community expected Godus to become. And don't be too afraid of sharing information. Take an example of some of the fine Early Access titles out there such as Stonehearth or Starbound. You can provide information about upcoming features in such a fashion without making it a ball-and-chain like Peter has done in the past. I'm honoured that you think that, and I'd like to add that most of my ideas are doable by default because I always think about how to implement them. But the bad news is that I think I'm being poached for trail The community was told that the only people working on the Trail would be the ones who no longer had anything valuable contribute to Godus (e.g. artists and designers since apparently Godus doesn't need of their input any more). It would be nice to be given a straight and honest answer once in a while. Edit: we were told this by... you! steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/624076027925636492/#c624076751542122795I don't mean to imply you aren't being honest though. Just that it appears that the future plans of the studio are being misconstrued even internally.
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Post by hardly on Dec 20, 2014 19:25:45 GMT
With Peter you don't listen to the words, you have to predict based on what has happened.
Basically Peter has abandoned Godus and left a rump led by furious moo in charge. Likely moo has been advocating internally for pc GOdUS and peter has given him it (now he has lost interest) as both a reward and a curse.
Peter is excited about the trail so he will take whatever resources he needs to work on this and moo will get whatever is left.
Probably the only reason peter is eve letting godus limp on is because mobole is still generating more revenue than the rump will cost and because it avoids the difficult announcement where he officially welches on all his promises.
It is going to be incredibly hard for moo to salvage something from godus and we need to accept it won't look exactly like the promises but could still be godlike. Let's all support him in his endeavours.
That doesn't mean we need to forgive peter or forget his betrayal. He has lurched from income stream to income stream with what appears to be little regard for actually delivering on the promises he spun to entice money from various consumers. Let's watch the trail from afar all knowing that none of us will support it and that he will almost asssuradly fail in making for the third time to make a game that is about anything more than exploitation through f2p.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Dec 20, 2014 20:04:05 GMT
I'm honoured that you think that, and I'd like to add that most of my ideas are doable by default because I always think about how to implement them. But the bad news is that I think I'm being poached for trail The community was told that the only people working on the Trail would be the ones who no longer had anything valuable contribute to Godus (e.g. artists and designers since apparently Godus doesn't need of their input any more). It would be nice to be given a straight and honest answer once in a while. Edit: we were told this by... you! steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/624076027925636492/#c624076751542122795I don't mean to imply you aren't being honest though. Just that it appears that the future plans of the studio are being misconstrued even internally. Yeah, I'm not happy by the news either. Remember how monkeythumbs said how he had no information about the trail before Peter announced it? I am in the same company. I was told, and relayed, that it was just three artists (with a coder to help setup). That seems to have changed. From your point of view, this looks like lies, I get that, but it's not, it's just the rate of change. I'm sorry if I've let you down, but I don't get to decide what project I work on. I will ask to remain on it, but I've already been given orders to start learning the new engine.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Dec 20, 2014 20:09:57 GMT
To be honest, I really don't like the way things have turned out.
I also have drunk a little bit too much whiskey this evening. Pm me for things I might regret saying in public ...
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Post by earlparvisjam on Dec 20, 2014 20:10:12 GMT
While all this refocusing and planning feels promising, a lot of what I'm hearing throws red flags. This is the heart of why I'm not thrilled about all this news:
-The only person to get on here regularly that works on the project is being reassigned to Trails.
This may be a coincidence but it sure looks bad from the outsider perspective. We've been so in the dark for so long and barely been given a peak inside at this point.
-Godus is going to be worked on by an unspecified subgroup of 22Cans members.
We've been assured that Godus will be developed for years to come. 22Cans has had problems implementing things with the staff they have now. How are we supposed to believe that things are going to speed up? This feels more like "technically" fulfilling that promise while stalling for time. I'd be less concerned if the pc version was spun up as a whole new project with a specified, dedicated, team that worked independently and on its own. Anything less smacks of lip service to an internal system that hasn't really changed much from what it already has been doing.
PM hasn't retired and he's not going to stay away. He's going to come up with another sudden "epiphany/brainstorm" and we're going to get another half-baked feature crammed into whatever fixes the skeleton crew's been able to make. We've a few years of experience watching how 22Cans operates and there's nothing that supports the idea that they've suddenly come to a development epiphany. When this project bogs down in six months because of too much work and too few hands, I'm expecting another round of iterative design excuses and avoidance.
-There's no funding for this project on its own
The pc version of Godus is now a drain on the company. It is both beholden on the goodwill of other projects and an albatross upon the Godus name with its negative image. People may be able to ignore it on the short term, but makes little business sense at this point. The only reason I can see this continuing is the fear of contract breach. 22Cans is just feeding bananas to the 500 lb gorilla in the room at this point. It's not going to leave at this point, maybe they're thinking it'll at least take a nap.
-With all the talk, it sounds like 22Cans expects us to treat this restructure as a reset button
All this talk isn't going to excuse the last two years. At this point, we've been asked to be patient too many times. We've given the benefit of the doubt more than anyone should ever have to do. Actions speak louder than words and it's telling just how bad things are when the community reacts to 22Cans spending a month actually communicating as a major boon. We've been patient, belittled by the corporate spokesman, mislead, misrepresented, marginalized, and excluded for so long that I'm uncertain it's even possible to heal the rift.
Putting ANY current employees on the Trails project is a slap in the face to the Godus community. There's no way around that. 22Cans has warn its small size like a suit of armor and repeatedly used it as an excuse to deflect criticism about how the pc version has been virtually ignored for over a year. Nobody has a clue just how this is going to work.
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Post by hardly on Dec 20, 2014 21:19:14 GMT
The community was told that the only people working on the Trail would be the ones who no longer had anything valuable contribute to Godus (e.g. artists and designers since apparently Godus doesn't need of their input any more). It would be nice to be given a straight and honest answer once in a while. Edit: we were told this by... you! steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/624076027925636492/#c624076751542122795I don't mean to imply you aren't being honest though. Just that it appears that the future plans of the studio are being misconstrued even internally. Yeah, I'm not happy by the news either. Remember how monkeythumbs said how he had no information about the trail before Peter announced it? I am in the same company. I was told, and relayed, that it was just three artists (with a coder to help setup). That seems to have changed. From your point of view, this looks like lies, I get that, but it's not, it's just the rate of change. I'm sorry if I've let you down, but I don't get to decide what project I work on. I will ask to remain on it, but I've already been given orders to start learning the new engine. We completely understand Fabs, we've understood for a long time now. I appreciate the time you've put in on these forums and that youve taken the time to spitball with us without the bullshit. The truth is the staff at 22cans have been betrayed and I'm sorry for that.
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Post by hardly on Dec 20, 2014 21:52:19 GMT
We need to prepare ourselves for the point where Peter starts doing press to create hype for the Trail. We all know it will involve talk of how great mobile is and how we can all game together and how we can connect people, blah, blah. The worst part will be Peter's epiphanies about what went wrong with GODUS which will of course blame everything and everybody except Peter.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 22:14:08 GMT
Par for the course. Did anyone expect anything else from Peter? His moral prestidigitation knows no bounds. Many of the backers/community folk suggested this would be his course of action. My only ounce of hope left for Godus is trusting that what we hear from Moo and Fabs isn't more grass-fed BS they're relaying from Peter. I would hope he respects his employees enough to be honest with them, heaven knows he doesn't hold his fans/community/backers in that same respect.
A sincere good luck to you, Moo and Fabs. I hope you both find success in your respective projects, for the good of gamer-kind.
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