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Post by Crumpy Six on Dec 20, 2014 22:30:48 GMT
Fabs, to echo what I believe everyone here feels (and from one who has also drank too much tonight because it's Christmas and because I'm celebrating good news) you are an awesome guy and no one would hold you responsible even remOtely for any of the Trail BS or any of the dubious misinformation that has been output by 22Cans. I didn't mean to specifically call you out on anything, you were just telling us info to the best of your knowledge and we couldn't ask for me than that, especially since we're always banging on about not getting enough transparency from 22Cans. Please don't let it put you off sharing news with us.
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Post by Deth on Dec 20, 2014 23:05:58 GMT
I'm sorry if I've let you down, but I don't get to decide what project I work on. I will ask to remain on it, but I've already been given orders to start learning the new engine. Fabs you have not let us down. We all appreciate you stopping by and sharing with us. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Dec 20, 2014 23:32:33 GMT
We need to prepare ourselves for the point where Peter starts doing press to create hype for the Trail. We all know it will involve talk of how great mobile is and how we can all game together and how we can connect people, blah, blah. The worst part will be Peter's epiphanies about what went wrong with GODUS which will of course blame everything and everybody except Peter. The positives here are: -Nobody except a few (like myself pre-Godus and pre-Hubworld hype) buy into Peter's bullshit. As he's hyping this new project, everyone is going to be asking what they've asked anytime his name comes up lately. Which are the following: --Why does anyone give a damn about him anymore? -Standard Bullfrog legacy rebuttal. Standard legacy doesn't make up for recent [insert recent mediocre games, e.g. Black & White 2/Fable 3/etc.] fumbles. --Whatever happened to his last project whatever it was/Godus? -Lowdown of descent into freemium bullshit. Offhanded speculation new project will be the same Molyneux bullshit tearjerker hype train going exactly nowhere or into awful freemium. The first point will be argued incessantly between diehard fans of his legacy going nowhere fast, but the second point will significantly undermine any excitement anyone skeptical might have had for his new project very quickly, I imagine. Add to this reference to his most recent work being a scrapyard of good/interesting concepts poorly executed and you'll only solidify it. Unfortunately, this might not be enough for those who managed to miss the worst disappointments of his work (e.g. Fable 3/Godus/etc.) and we may nevertheless see it get enough momentum to go...somewhere, but I'm still doubtful it will go anywhere fast or well. Godus was his biggest chance to redeem himself to some of his old fans, and he essentially spit in their face and derided their belief in him. |
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Post by hardly on Dec 20, 2014 23:56:28 GMT
We need to prepare ourselves for the point where Peter starts doing press to create hype for the Trail. We all know it will involve talk of how great mobile is and how we can all game together and how we can connect people, blah, blah. The worst part will be Peter's epiphanies about what went wrong with GODUS which will of course blame everything and everybody except Peter. The positives here are: -Nobody except a few (like myself pre-Godus and pre-Hubworld hype) buy into Peter's bullshit. As he's hyping this new project, everyone is going to be asking what they've asked anytime his name comes up lately. Which are the following: --Why does anyone give a damn about him anymore? -Standard Bullfrog legacy rebuttal. Standard legacy doesn't make up for recent [insert recent mediocre games, e.g. Black & White 2/Fable 3/etc.] fumbles. --Whatever happened to his last project whatever it was/Godus? -Lowdown of descent into freemium bullshit. Offhanded speculation new project will be the same Molyneux bullshit tearjerker hype train going exactly nowhere or into awful freemium. The first point will be argued incessantly between diehard fans of his legacy going nowhere fast, but the second point will significantly undermine any excitement anyone skeptical might have had for his new project very quickly, I imagine. Add to this reference to his most recent work being a scrapyard of good/interesting concepts poorly executed and you'll only solidify it. Unfortunately, this might not be enough for those who managed to miss the worst disappointments of his work (e.g. Fable 3/Godus/etc.) and we may nevertheless see it get enough momentum to go...somewhere, but I'm still doubtful it will go anywhere fast or well. Godus was his biggest chance to redeem himself to some of his old fans, and he essentially spit in their face and derided their belief in him. There are two things I think are true in regard to this. First I think Peter has calculated that he can get away with abandoning GODUS through his usual methods - basically telling a story about how terrible everything turned out but that it was because of x,y,z factors and therefore the new project which is so ambitious will be different because its just so amazing and fundamentally different from anything that has gone before. My second point is that I think Peter has badly underestimated how blatant and obvious his failure has been this time. I believe that he will be confronted with a very sceptical gaming press that will hammer him with the facts you state above - the failure of GODUS.
There is no good reason for abandoning GODUS at this stage well other than the fact its fundamentally flaw as Danjal and others have pointed out. That is a reason for us to abandon it, not Peter. If you look at the percentage bar it is damning - 53%. The ages - basically stuck in bronze age which is almost prehistory. The absence of any multiplayer functionality what so ever. Its not like Fable One where he promised a dog and didn't deliver, and silly hairstyles nobody cared about, this time he's left pretty much everything out of the game. The other factor that I think will be his downfall is the use of kickstarter/early access. The gaming public expect more of people who tap these funding sources (as opposed to publisher money) and I think when the criticism and questions role in they will come harder and faster than he expects.
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Post by Deth on Dec 20, 2014 23:57:51 GMT
I know I will be asking how will the prmoises about the Trail will be diffrent from the promises for Godus, in any story I can find.
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Post by hardly on Dec 21, 2014 0:21:33 GMT
I know I will be asking how will the prmoises about the Trail will be diffrent from the promises for Godus, in any story I can find. I don't care to know how the promises will be different because there is no way in hell I will buy another game that is associated with Peter Molyneux. I prevented many of my friends falling for GOTUS and I plan to do the same for any future 22Cans releases. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Dec 21, 2014 0:37:02 GMT
I know I will be asking how will the prmoises about the Trail will be diffrent from the promises for Godus, in any story I can find. I don't care to know how the promises will be different because there is no way in hell I will buy another game that is associated with Peter Molyneux. I prevented many of my friends falling for GOTUS and I plan to do the same for any future 22Cans releases. Semi-obligatory sorry everyone in 22cans that's not Peter. |
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Post by hardly on Dec 21, 2014 0:43:41 GMT
I don't care to know how the promises will be different because there is no way in hell I will buy another game that is associated with Peter Molyneux. I prevented many of my friends falling for GOTUS and I plan to do the same for any future 22Cans releases. Semi-obligatory sorry everyone in 22cans that's not Peter. Yeah its not that I have anything against the other people at 22Cans (I hope I've made that clear in other posts) but at this point if its produced by a company Peter is involved with I cant buy it on principle. I consider GODUS to be one of the greatest sins any game development company has ever committed (similar in significant to the War Z) and as such 22Cans must be shunned by the gaming public. I'm sorry if that seems harsh to the people with good intentions working within 22Cans but the fact is your company has taken a blowtorch to its reputation and it will take some seriously epic deeds to redeem that reputation. |
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Post by Deth on Dec 21, 2014 2:16:49 GMT
I know I will be asking how will the prmoises about the Trail will be diffrent from the promises for Godus, in any story I can find. I don't care to know how the promises will be different because there is no way in hell I will buy another game that is associated with Peter Molyneux. I prevented many of my friends falling for GOTUS and I plan to do the same for any future 22Cans releases. OH I will not be buying the Trail but want to make sure anyone looking at it knows what happen with Godus. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 2:44:45 GMT
I don't care to know how the promises will be different because there is no way in hell I will buy another game that is associated with Peter Molyneux. I prevented many of my friends falling for GOTUS and I plan to do the same for any future 22Cans releases. OH I will not be buying the Trail but want to make sure anyone looking at it knows what happen with Godus. My guess is it will be another F2P, pay-wall ridden Mobile title, no purchase neccessary. Anyone want to guess how early on the users will be urged to give "TheTrail" a 5 star rating? I'm guessing in the first 5 minutes. |
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Post by Danjal on Dec 22, 2014 11:31:23 GMT
Yeah, I'm not happy by the news either. Remember how monkeythumbs said how he had no information about the trail before Peter announced it? I am in the same company. I was told, and relayed, that it was just three artists (with a coder to help setup). That seems to have changed. From your point of view, this looks like lies, I get that, but it's not, it's just the rate of change. I'm sorry if I've let you down, but I don't get to decide what project I work on. I will ask to remain on it, but I've already been given orders to start learning the new engine. We'll just have to agree to disagree - that right there falls exactly under the definition "lies". In the sense that Peter initially says/claims one thing to keep people off his back when he knows perfectly well that its not gonna happen that way. I'm not putting any blame here on you or George. As you say, you can't do more than relay what you've been told. But your 'source' is unreliable to say the least. Which makes me wonder how anything gets done in office with Peter unable to give a straight answer aswell as being an almost compulsive liar when it comes to wanting to appear 'better' for the media. I wish I could make it sound less harsh, but time and time again he chooses to embellish and glorify the truth to make a better impression only to turn around and ignore everything he's just said. It'll be a shame to see you leave if you indeed get moved to "The Trail" - and no hard feelings towards you, you're just doing as you're told. Though I suspect that this behaviour will leave a lasting mark on the 22cans name aswell as Peter's own reputation. Adding to his existing reputation. Based on the description "The Trail" sounds very much like what he may have intended Godus to become originally. And I have a hard time seeing people look kindly on such a reboot if he chooses to drop Godus like a rock purely because it didn't go his way. |
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Post by morsealworth on Dec 22, 2014 12:04:23 GMT
The more I know about Peter the more I get an impression he's a psychopath. And a psychopaths are no to be trusted under any circumstances since they never regret what they did to others - thewy only regret they failed to so unnoticed.
Some psychopaths who are widely known: Lu Buwei, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin (yes, these two show the perfect anamnesis for mosaic psychopaths and I'm not trying to compare Peter to a Nazi - we're talking about other aspects here), Alexander Lukashenko.
By the way, all psychopaths are compulsive liars. Simply because they do not talk to convey, they talk to manipulate. And that's why they never admit that.
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Post by hardly on Dec 22, 2014 17:42:40 GMT
What surprises me is his disrespect for 22cans staff and their reputations. By giving them incorrect information and making surprise announcements in the media he has compromised their reputations. I think at the end of this the people most harmed by Peter's behaviour will be those who worked with him.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Dec 22, 2014 17:57:26 GMT
What surprises me is his disrespect for 22cans staff and their reputations. By giving them incorrect information and making surprise announcements in the media he has compromised their reputations. I think at the end of this the people most harmed by Peter's behaviour will be those who worked with him. I agree. In these types of scenarios, I always feel extreme sympathy for the employees; especially having been in a similar position myself once. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Dec 22, 2014 21:00:40 GMT
What surprises me is his disrespect for 22cans staff and their reputations. By giving them incorrect information and making surprise announcements in the media he has compromised their reputations. I think at the end of this the people most harmed by Peter's behaviour will be those who worked with him. Maybe I'm being stupidly optimistic again (which is what has me here in the first place, cheers to me), but I'd like to think people would be more discerning and throw all the blame on Peter (what a right contradiction that sounds at first). He's been the frontman and the messenger for 22cans since the very start, so if anything, nobody even really knows about anyone else at 22cans (I know I didn't prior to diving into this whole mess), so they'll probably be more like: "Oh, you worked for Molyneux..." "Yeah..." "I'm so sorry, we're more focused here." "Oh thank god." Edit:
By the way, FuriousMoo, sorry if I'm being lazy and have overlooked this, but you won't know what you have to work with until after the holidays maybe, right? Just thinking over this and the crumbly parts of Godus that would need revision and if Raspofabs as well as pathfinding guy are gone...Leaves me wondering. I'd suspect Gary the waterman might also be dragged away, leaving rivers and springs a total jumble...Then again, maybe you have enough people with overlapping skillsets to make up for whoever gets dragged off on another crazy Molyneuxian venture. |
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Post by morsealworth on Dec 23, 2014 8:58:48 GMT
What surprises me is his disrespect for 22cans staff and their reputations. By giving them incorrect information and making surprise announcements in the media he has compromised their reputations. I think at the end of this the people most harmed by Peter's behaviour will be those who worked with him. Well, If I'm right, he doesn't let himself notice the problems he caused to everyone around him. That's the type of psychopathic egoism, after all. |
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