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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 5:32:22 GMT
... It's so frustrating that I have to tap dance around blatant trolling to point out just how bad the situation is. When I posted that I was offended by his post, I was doing more than just responding to him/her. The only way to point out these breaches of the rules is to do it through tangents like I did. It's nice that FRA finally went far enough overboard that the mods couldn't ignore it any more, but I shouldn't have to do everything short of tricking a troll into confessing in order for them to act. We all know that if I'd have just called him/her a dick for insulting the community, I'd be the one with the ban and FRA would never have gotten that ban. Everything posted by FRA has skirted the rules in the short time he/she's been on the forums. ... Well said. Everyone now knows whats going on over there, and that there is no justice to be found. No one should need to side step around the issue to draw out a confession from an obvious troll, while remaining in fear for themselves. This is the enviornment that their overzealous moderation has created, one of perpetual paranoia, that everyone now has to pause to consider, can what I say in anyway be twisted to be used against me? because we know that's exactly what they are doing. What is even worse is when they'll bemoan the scarcity of what they consider "positive threads" while at the same time 22cans walks away mid-discussion on threads discussing details on what is going to be worked on, what is happening at 22cans, what design 22cans is willing to look at, and above all else, any responsibility they have for themselves in representing their company in this manner. Of course the post purge - conducted in a way that leaves a lot of their replies to those purged posts still there - exposes an obvious erasure campaign. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 6:03:35 GMT
Thing is... Fraggle never really posted anything positive.. just trollish defensive posts.. that's it. He never even attempted to go off into the other threads and do something positive. Not really hard to see his motivation.
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Post by totallytim on May 17, 2015 7:54:53 GMT
"Here's a whole day long ban because you actually went out of your way and admitted your true intentions. Next time be more careful."
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 9:50:26 GMT
Hum hum... well, I believe there's a theory where people indeed like to be banned. xD It looks like rebels, it's cool etc... well, a bit like a parents / kids role. --'
@lord Ba'al : Well... Is it possible to be banned from Godus boards forum ? lol
Any candidates ?
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 17, 2015 10:51:41 GMT
Do you believe these guys wanted to be banned?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 17, 2015 12:12:39 GMT
Hum hum... well, I believe there's a theory where people indeed like to be banned. xD It looks like rebels, it's cool etc... well, a bit like a parents / kids role. --' @lord Ba'al : Well... Is it possible to be banned from Godus boards forum ? lol Any candidates ? It is certainly possible. So far I've banned two people for posting spam. If you don't post spam you would have to act like a major arsehole to get banned. |
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Post by morsealworth on May 17, 2015 12:48:04 GMT
Hum hum... well, I believe there's a theory where people indeed like to be banned. xD It looks like rebels, it's cool etc... well, a bit like a parents / kids role. --' @lord Ba'al : Well... Is it possible to be banned from Godus boards forum ? lol Any candidates ? It is certainly possible. So far I've banned two people for posting spam. If you don't post spam you would have to act like a major arsehole to get banned. And so far, even I, who was called here a very bad person, did get only one warning for accidentally breaking TOS of boards.net. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 13:28:09 GMT
Do you believe these guys wanted to be banned? No, it's not made on purpose. It's kind of an inconscious thing Hum hum... well, I believe there's a theory where people indeed like to be banned. xD It looks like rebels, it's cool etc... well, a bit like a parents / kids role. --' @lord Ba'al : Well... Is it possible to be banned from Godus boards forum ? lol Any candidates ? It is certainly possible. So far I've banned two people for posting spam. If you don't post spam you would have to act like a major arsehole to get banned. Ok It is certainly possible. So far I've banned two people for posting spam. If you don't post spam you would have to act like a major arsehole to get banned. And so far, even I, who was called here a very bad person, did get only one warning for accidentally breaking TOS of boards.net. Not to confund, arts and spam.  |
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Post by mindless on May 17, 2015 15:21:35 GMT
Do you believe these guys wanted to be banned? No, it's not made on purpose. It's kind of an inconscious thing I imagine you actually meant to say "unconscious". So in your opinion do you feel that I unconsciously insulted the forum newcomer, or do you believe I am innocent of the charges leveled against me. Cause I can assure you, consciously or not, there is no way I wanted to be banned, I've hundreds of posts, spanning a long period of time, posts where I felt I was contributing to the project, which have now all been wiped away, all of my suggestions, all of my positivity and creativity was just discarded. That represents a significant investment of my time and passion, and it's all been undone in the blink of an eye. Maybe you don't know how it feels because you have not been subjected to this type of treatment, but I can tell you from my own experience, this hurts, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 15:42:54 GMT
No, it's not made on purpose. It's kind of an inconscious thing I imagine you actually meant to say "unconscious". So in your opinion do you feel that I unconsciously insulted the forum newcomer, or do you believe I am innocent of the charges leveled against me. Cause I can assure you, consciously or not, there is no way I wanted to be banned, I've hundreds of posts, spanning a long period of time, posts where I felt I was contributing to the project, which have now all been wiped away, all of my suggestions, all of my positivity and creativity was just discarded. That represents a significant investment of my time and passion, and it's all been undone in the blink of an eye. Maybe you don't know how it feels because you have not been subjected to this type of treatment, but I can tell you from my own experience, this hurts, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Yes, unconsciously. This doesn't concern everybody. About what you said, I guess your posts have been banned because you wrote them ideas that just didn't fit with their project/plan. A way for them not to discuss that much to you maybe for lack of time reasons also. You should probably put your ideas somewhere else, for yourself or other people(studio), in another project. |
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Post by mindless on May 17, 2015 16:14:47 GMT
Could you please explain to me what about my posts you find offensive/bullying?
this was the reason given why i was banned. Not because they did not agree with my suggestions as you appear to be implying.
You can find them on page 2 of this discussion. Third post from the top.
Reguarding your opinion about my suggestions not fitting in with this project. If i make a suggestion and they dont like it, they are under no obligation to obey me. If they dislike a suggestion That in no way justifies giving them a reason to kick me out. They can allways just opt to ignore my feedback. I find your suggestion that i should just leave and find some other project confusing. Im following this project because i like god games. I bought into the promise that this game would be developed openly with active community engagement. Why would i want to leave a project that until this point i had wanted to see succeed?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 21:22:27 GMT
Could you please explain to me what about my posts you find offensive/bullying? this was the reason given why i was banned. Not because they did not agree with my suggestions as you appear to be implying. You can find them on page 2 of this discussion. Third post from the top. Reguarding your opinion about my suggestions not fitting in with this project. If i make a suggestion and they dont like it, they are under no obligation to obey me. If they dislike a suggestion That in no way justifies giving them a reason to kick me out. They can allways just opt to ignore my feedback. I find your suggestion that i should just leave and find some other project confusing. Im following this project because i like god games. I bought into the promise that this game would be developed openly with active community engagement. Why would i want to leave a project that until this point i had wanted to see succeed? Sorry mindless, you get a good name there : not my occupation to explain people why they don't understand some behaviour on top on the internet. You ll find out soon by yourself don't worry. More over, I'm not at all super-active on Godus forum, so apologies. All the best. |
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Post by greay on May 17, 2015 21:34:02 GMT
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Post by mindless on May 17, 2015 22:58:09 GMT
Thats ok steph4.
For a moment I actually thought you had something interesting to add to this conversation, like maybe there really are people out there who after reading the posts I directed you towards, are somehow able to see within the text some sort of offensive behaviour. I thought we were going to get an insight into how maybe the moderators may have interpreted/miss-interpreted our words. However your lack of engagement makes it apparent to me that you do not actually have anything significant to add to the conversation.
It now looks obvious to me, that you haven't actually bothered to read this thread. You appear to be here just to pour salt onto an open wound. As such I will now be choosing to mostly ignore you from this point going forward.
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Post by 13thGeneral on May 18, 2015 1:10:52 GMT
Just a thought, looking at it as a non-objective observer; Perhaps there is a bit of an relentlessness onslaught with which you pursue the topic, and a careful but callous and dismissive manner in many of the phrases that each of you post that can be rather unforgiving while toeing the lines of objectionable or acceptable behavior against those that don't support your opinions and narrative?
Again, just something to think about, as it may be something you're doing completely unconsciously, or your experiences are somewhat clouding and perhaps biasing your ability to realize this.
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Post by hardly on May 18, 2015 1:27:41 GMT
Just a thought, looking at it as a non-objective observer; Perhaps there is a bit of an relentlessness onslaught with which you pursue the topic, and a careful but callous and dismissive manner in many of the phrases that each of you post that can be rather unforgiving while toeing the lines of objectionable or acceptable behavior against those that don't support your opinions and narrative? Again, just something to think about, as it may be something you're doing completely unconsciously, or your experiences are somewhat clouding and perhaps biasing your ability to realize this. There is a certain incredulity that we as a community adopt when debating with people who say they like GODUS and our numerical superiority may give the appearance of a coordinated attack. However, it's also true that the people who claim to like GODUS often do so in very short posts which don't help us understand why they like it. It's not impossible to like, after all we all probably viewed it more favourably in the first 10 hours. With defected zombie what set me off was he asked a question suggesting he knew nothing (nothing wrong there), then he proceeded to lecture us (no real problem there especially given he knew something we didn't), then he started weaving in negative adjectives - entitled, confused, ignorant. At that point I said he was trolling and I stick with my diagnosis. Keep in mind I only made two posts that I can see. So it's not like I subjected him to a torrent of my views on the subject. Ultimately I've been much more aggressive in other threads here and on steam which may better fit what you say but I like to think I always play the ball and not the man but if I fail I'm always happy to be told that. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on May 18, 2015 2:04:52 GMT
Thanks for explaining more of your standpoint. Having reviewed many of the threads (bits that survived, and stuff you all posted here) I certainly don't think any of you deserved a perma-ban.
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Post by hardly on May 18, 2015 3:08:16 GMT
Thanks for explaining more of your standpoint. Having reviewed many of the threads (bits that survived, and stuff you all posted here) I certainly don't think any of you deserved a perma-ban. The implication being somebody deserved a shorter term ban? That may not have been what you meant but the implication is there. I don't mean to argue but your post does leave that question in my mind. It really comes down to what you see the limits of moderation being. Personally I see moderation as being required to keep people safe on forums. If someone feels offended by aggressive nature of someone's statement the first redress should be to ask someone to amend or clarify their comment. Ultimately bans should be reserved for people attacking people personally. Normally this would cover a series of personal attacks based on things like gender, race, etc. but could also extend to offensive adjectives applied to the person. The volume and severity is important. Arguably calling someone a troll fits in this category but context is important. If I say "you fucking troll I hope you jump of your bridge and die" that is quite different to "I think you are trolling me." One is aggressive while another is observational. Finally you can't take angst out of an argument. People disagree and people get excited. Anybody on a forum can tell someone to cool off or rephrase their argument. People will question other people's intelligence and judgement. Bans/censorship are only needed where someone will be hurt and as we see around here it doesn't happen that often. |
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Post by hardly on May 18, 2015 5:16:45 GMT
Maybe I am a bully. Wife puts article on Facebook saying butter>margarine. I refute by referring to the research they quote in article which actually shows margarine reduces Cholesterol, hypertension and weight. I also ask what "chemicals" margarine has in it? Wife deletes posts and texts me to say I'm a bully.
It's never personal for me (except when you ban me from steam and delete my posts) but perhaps it is for other people.
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 18, 2015 8:58:59 GMT
Maybe I am a bully. Wife puts article on Facebook saying butter>margarine. I refute by referring to the research they quote in article which actually shows margarine reduces Cholesterol, hypertension and weight. I also ask what "chemicals" margarine has in it? Wife deletes posts and texts me to say I'm a bully. It's never personal for me (except when you ban me from steam and delete my posts) but perhaps it is for other people. Maybe your wife didn't post the article with the intention of having an all-out butter vs. margarine debate. Just like people who post on the Steam boards with innocuous things like "I really like this game, does anyone know when it's next going to be updated?" probably don't expect to open a can of worms where 15 people respond with scathing comments about the probability of Godus ever being updated again. Not everyone has followed this project for 3+ years, and the response you get on a forum can be mystifying for new players. I had an experience on a forum once when I turned up and asked a completely innocent question, only to be utterly dog-piled. I had no ulterior motive whatsoever, but was assaulted with endless accusations that I was a troll and/or the sock-puppet of some previous troublemaker (of whom I had no knowledge whatsoever). It's extremely frustrating to be dismissed in such a way and was a very poor reflection on that particular community. I'm not saying I agree with the bans that have been handed out on Steam, and especially the deletion of mindless' posting history (I am astonished they would do that, to the point where I wonder if they did it by mistake). But I can also see why new players would not find the Steam community to be very welcoming, and it does appear when someone tries to make the slightest argument in defense of Godus they get accused of being a 22Cans sock-puppet. The mods have probably become frustrated and dispirited by the whole thing to the point where they just don't care about fairness and even-handedness any more and are taking lazy shortcuts to try to sweep up the problem. |
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