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Post by Bob The Builder on Jan 12, 2016 20:57:38 GMT
Whether Aynen is a victim or not seems pointless. He's really a non-issue if you ignore his aweful s@&$-modding/posting on the Steam forums. I just think it's a shame this community hasn't banded together by now and stuck 22cans toes in the fire like the Elite: Dangerous community did when that studio lied their arses off. What are you suggesting? Nothing that hasn't been suggested before. It makes one wonder if there really is no legal leg to stand on for those who feel scammed by 22cans, or whether the community just isn't put out enough to bring up a similar stink like the Elite community. |
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Post by Qetesh on Jan 12, 2016 21:08:34 GMT
I skewered 22cans pretty well for about 1200 of my 1557 posts. I also blasted them on Steam several times and 99 percent of all my posts on 22can backer boards after Alpha. No really much left to say. Everyone knows that PM is a liar and 22cans is a failure. They lost almost all their staff and now have hopes set on The Trail.
I will bitch like a MOFO if The Trail comes out before ALL backer rewards are completed. Till then, they are spinning their wheels and rotating careers for dozens. I couldn't care less if I tried.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 13, 2016 0:26:54 GMT
Whether Aynen is a victim or not seems pointless. He's really a non-issue if you ignore his aweful s@&$-modding/posting on the Steam forums. I just think it's a shame this community hasn't banded together by now and stuck 22cans toes in the fire like the Elite: Dangerous community did when that studio lied their arses off. What community? There's literally maybe a few dozen left. Everyone else has either forgotten or wrote it off long ago. There's really not much else that can be done anyway, honestly. |
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Post by Bob The Builder on Jan 13, 2016 5:30:07 GMT
Whether Aynen is a victim or not seems pointless. He's really a non-issue if you ignore his aweful s@&$-modding/posting on the Steam forums. I just think it's a shame this community hasn't banded together by now and stuck 22cans toes in the fire like the Elite: Dangerous community did when that studio lied their arses off. What community? There's literally maybe a few dozen left. Everyone else has either forgotten or wrote it off long ago. There's really not much else that can be done anyway, honestly. Well then, it's Kings to Simon, isn't it. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jan 13, 2016 7:59:09 GMT
What community? There's literally maybe a few dozen left. Everyone else has either forgotten or wrote it off long ago. There's really not much else that can be done anyway, honestly. Well then, it's Kings to Simon, isn't it. I'm not familiar with whatever the Elite: Dangerous community did, but I'm honestly not sure what it is you're hoping to see. SEA customers have no recourse due to Steam's appalling policy on Early Access games. Kickstarter backers may have a leg to stand on as far as legal action is concerned, but as Godus is still in officially incomplete I'm sure 22Cans would continue to use the tired defense of "it's not finished". Forum user Drake claimed to be seeking legal advice over Godus, but I'm not sure what, if anything, came of it. Other than that, the community has kept the press informed (which has resulted in a few damning news articles over the last few years). If you have any actual suggestions though, I'm sure we'd be happy to hear it. |
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Post by Bleargh on Jan 13, 2016 14:36:34 GMT
The really sad thing is that 22cans have sort of won with their "no-reaction/communication-whatsoever" policy.
They managed to erode the community away until only the handful here are left. And what can we do really?
It's just sad that when 'The Day' finally comes (release' of godus from EA), there will be alomost nobody left to protest the tweak/nudge/change/spin that 22cans will again put on the narrative to make them look good (or at least the victim in the whole mess).
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Post by Deth on Jan 13, 2016 15:56:05 GMT
I for one will make use of the Steam return policy for The (be)trail. I plan to buy it play it the hour or so I can, then give it a review referencing Godus, then return it for a refund. That is something I think everyone here needs to do.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 13, 2016 17:04:34 GMT
I for one will make use of the Steam return policy for The (be)trail. I plan to buy it play it the hour or so I can, then give it a review referencing Godus, then return it for a refund. That is something I think everyone here needs to do. That would not only be an abuse of the return policy - where constant misuses will only really effectively erode the system - but it again perpetuates the faulty "revenge" mindset of "two wrongs make a right". This would also simply support 22Cans stance that the community is a bunch of immature, abusive, abrasive, and entitled whining degenerates. Lets not give them that satisfaction, by taking a higher moral ground. |
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Post by militairensneuvelen on Jan 13, 2016 17:05:12 GMT
It's on my "to do" list!!!
Thanks for the great idea.
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Post by Deth on Jan 13, 2016 17:41:35 GMT
I for one will make use of the Steam return policy for The (be)trail. I plan to buy it play it the hour or so I can, then give it a review referencing Godus, then return it for a refund. That is something I think everyone here needs to do. That would not only be an abuse of the return policy - where constant misuses will only really effectively erode the system - but it again perpetuates the faulty "revenge" mindset of "two wrongs make a right". This would also simply support 22Cans stance that the community is a bunch of immature, abusive, abrasive, and entitled whining degenerates. Lets not give them that satisfaction, by taking a higher moral ground. Never said I would give them a bad review. I will do an honest review. But I will have to reference that the game was build on the back of another game and it support to their detriment and warn people to suspect the support they get for the game till it is proven other wise. |
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Post by totallytim on Jan 13, 2016 19:42:25 GMT
I do wonder how they'll explain working on a 3rd game while they're still nowhere close to finishing the one they took our money for. And Godus Wars must be a separate entity and not just an engine change, since they obviously had no troubles with just changing engines for Godus in the past.
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Post by Deth on Jan 13, 2016 20:27:01 GMT
Hmmmmmmm random though. I wonder if we are given a free key if we could request a refund for the sale price of the game if Godus Wars is a separate game and they give us all a free key. I know that loop hole would never be allowed. But I would find it funny if it did happen.
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Post by hardly on Jan 13, 2016 23:07:36 GMT
I do wonder how they'll explain working on a 3rd game while they're still nowhere close to finishing the one they took our money for. And Godus Wars must be a separate entity and not just an engine change, since they obviously had no troubles with just changing engines for Godus in the past. If GODUS Wars is a real game being developed by 22Cans then I think it is very likely that it will be an abandonment of the mobile port and a new standalone game targeted at PC users. On the face of it this would be the implementation of what we have been asking for. So we shouldn't jump to give 22Cans shit until we know what they are doing and critically, how well they do it. Of course 22Cans could come to the reasonableness party by explaining their actions, intentions and plans. Not doing so comes of as childish spite at this point. |
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the voice of reason
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Post by the voice of reason on Jan 14, 2016 14:48:43 GMT
I do wonder how they'll explain working on a 3rd game while they're still nowhere close to finishing the one they took our money for. And Godus Wars must be a separate entity and not just an engine change, since they obviously had no troubles with just changing engines for Godus in the past. If GODUS Wars is a real game being developed by 22Cans then I think it is very likely that it will be an abandonment of the mobile port and a new standalone game targeted at PC users. On the face of it this would be the implementation of what we have been asking for. So we shouldn't jump to give 22Cans shit until we know what they are doing and critically, how well they do it. Of course 22Cans could come to the reasonableness party by explaining their actions, intentions and plans. Not doing so comes of as childish spite at this point. Whatever godus wars is .... it's bad news for the PC crowd. Easy way to tell this. When 22cans is proud of what they are doing and know it will be good for PC they really shout about. 22Cans go into run silent when they are about to shit on us from a very great hight. The long the silence the greater the hight. So far this has been on of the longest silences. Im expecting something of similar "shitting on the customers" levels to Godus 2.0 |
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Post by hardly on Jan 14, 2016 19:42:39 GMT
I agree somewhat. I think they a are silent because they are having implementation challenges (due to a severe lack of talent) and because despite their intention to develop a good game it's probably not that good. Hence they are scared to talk to us. However, I do think the signs still point to them attempting a PC reboot, I didn't say the signs pointed to them successfully doing this or the game being any good.
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Post by Mandrake on Jan 14, 2016 21:51:01 GMT
I do wonder how they'll explain working on a 3rd game while they're still nowhere close to finishing the one they took our money for. And Godus Wars must be a separate entity and not just an engine change, since they obviously had no troubles with just changing engines for Godus in the past. If GODUS Wars is a real game being developed by 22Cans then I think it is very likely that it will be an abandonment of the mobile port and a new standalone game targeted at PC users. On the face of it this would be the implementation of what we have been asking for. So we shouldn't jump to give 22Cans shit until we know what they are doing and critically, how well they do it. It would seem to me that if 22cans were working on something of the sort then they would have actually said as much instead of the indicative quiet before the (shit)storm. Keeping quiet to avoid notice of DeNA? It would seem that a new title would be to escape responsibilities in some manner, and publisher contractual obligations may be something possible since those folks usually have a litigation team upon retainer, unlike your average Kickstarter backer. It would also seem that 22cans may rightfully tell DeNA where to stick it involving the PC version and what is released upon Steam, because that should be none of DeNA's business unless 22cans were damn stupid fail enough at business to somehow sign rights of that over to DeNA - a detail that I cannot recall there ever being a firm answer about except for some evasiveness (so there might be in some way, history points to likely). If they're planning on surprising folks along the lines of "Ha-ha, we were just kidding about Godus just being a mobile port of a cow clicker clone of some of the most mediocre gameplay elements around; here's the real game." then...well played? They put their reputation and future employment of their hires into the bog for a lark? This is probably why so many new independents were started instead of employees being able to work at other studios - those hiring probably saw 22cans on the CV and had a laugh. Didn't you know? 22cans isn't telling people to go away, so that's why they're giving the silent treatment and hiding all of what they aren't proud of. Since they had basically cloning buildings from other games, algorithms running into each other in slapstick routines, and simple interface twiddling to show...it must really be bad. That is the biggest indication that, and from some recent admissions, these plans were in the works for some time - PM's been doubling down on his dishonesty and is again taking those under his employ with him. Hence why more employees are finding what is acceptable in business and video game design to no longer exist there at the 22cans' offices, if it ever did. After all else, I doubt they're being deceptive to do anything that could be received as good, as they've successfully crushed what little optimism existed upon the Steam forums more than anyone else ever could to the point that such poor PR looks intentional rather than just routine incompetence. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 14, 2016 22:00:10 GMT
I've always heard references to 22Cans having 'cloned buildings' from other games, but I don't recall ever seen the evidence of this; could someone point me in the direction? I tried some searching, but came up with nothing solid.
Thanks.
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Post by Mandrake on Jan 14, 2016 22:08:37 GMT
I've always heard references to 22Cans having 'cloned buildings' from other games, but I don't recall ever seen the evidence of this; could someone point me in the direction? I tried some searching, but came up with nothing solid. Thanks. With all else rumoured, going through a convoluted way to arrive at a clone the Army Camp of Clash of Clans seems to have been a really questionable choice of anything to show off. (Of course I liked the supposition that the code could be used for other buildings...just like the 'legacy code' that was giving them so many problems as the given reason why updates were being delayed?) |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 14, 2016 22:21:16 GMT
I've always heard references to 22Cans having 'cloned buildings' from other games, but I don't recall ever seen the evidence of this; could someone point me in the direction? I tried some searching, but came up with nothing solid. Thanks. With all else rumoured, going through a convoluted way to arrive at a clone the Army Camp of Clash of Clans seems to have been a really questionable choice of anything to show off. (Of course I liked the supposition that the code could be used for other buildings...just like the 'legacy code' that was giving them so many problems as the given reason why updates were being delayed?) Ah, I see. Not an exactly direct cloning of their assets, just close mimicry to the visuals and mechanics. I've never played 'Clash of Clans', so I wouldn't have known or noticed any similarities existing. Certainly seems a bit blatant and lazy, but then again, similarities could merely be a coincidence of genre. I mean, how else would/could it be represented? |
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Post by Mandrake on Jan 14, 2016 22:41:06 GMT
Ah, I see. Not an exactly direct cloning of their assets, just close mimicry to the visuals and mechanics. I've never played 'Clash of Clans', so I wouldn't have known or noticed any similarities existing. Certainly seems a bit blatant and lazy, but then again, similarities could merely be a coincidence of genre. I mean, how else would/could it be represented? There are many ways in which units and production buildings have been and could be represented in the genre - in that they are keeping to an audience expectation while offering some narrative we're supposed to accept as being the results of actual studio work upon the title, yet so far it's been mostly a lot of hiding. I'm still waiting to see the supposed monetisation that hasn't existed before while what they are using is a pay-to-progress system that lacks the actual pay-to-win edge that the big moneymakers have to urge folks to spend to be more competitive. I liked in that article how PM admits what kind of a dick he is: "Until they are deemed ready" apparently means from about five minutes in. How thoughtful! With that, what kind of production could we really expect from 22cans? We were supposed to be impressed with what they were showing, or maybe distracted, by the work pace that suggested modders should be brought in to finish the game. Now they've been working on something that looks to be separate from Godus, and from how 22cans have been generally in hiding except for their deniable agents to suggest 22cans actually gives a toss, along with the PR's occasional run-by snub at folks to suggest that 22cans really doesn't, it really doesn't look good. |
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