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Post by Spiderweb on Jan 14, 2016 22:41:17 GMT
I agree somewhat. I think they a are silent because they are having implementation challenges (due to a severe lack of talent) and because despite their intention to develop a good game it's probably not that good. Hence they are scared to talk to us. However, I do think the signs still point to them attempting a PC reboot, I didn't say the signs pointed to them successfully doing this or the game being any good. I think the silence is just them meeting as many Godus Kickstarter pledges as possible, so they can not get sued. Then they'll say that's it finished and released. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 14, 2016 23:54:03 GMT
According to SteamDB - ' Godus Wars' Last Record Update: about 4 hours ago (January 14, 2016 – 20:13:38 UTC) Still no response from the company about what this is. |
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Post by hardly on Jan 15, 2016 0:55:37 GMT
I agree somewhat. I think they a are silent because they are having implementation challenges (due to a severe lack of talent) and because despite their intention to develop a good game it's probably not that good. Hence they are scared to talk to us. However, I do think the signs still point to them attempting a PC reboot, I didn't say the signs pointed to them successfully doing this or the game being any good. I think the silence is just them meeting as many Godus Kickstarter pledges as possible, so they can not get sued. Then they'll say that's it finished and released. Minimum effort to tick off Kickstarter promises is definitely a possibility, what activity we have seen over resent months seems to aim for this. Is the office camera still operating? |
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Post by hardly on Jan 15, 2016 0:58:17 GMT
If GODUS Wars is a real game being developed by 22Cans then I think it is very likely that it will be an abandonment of the mobile port and a new standalone game targeted at PC users. On the face of it this would be the implementation of what we have been asking for. So we shouldn't jump to give 22Cans shit until we know what they are doing and critically, how well they do it. It would seem to me that if 22cans were working on something of the sort then they would have actually said as much instead of the indicative quiet before the (shit)storm. Keeping quiet to avoid notice of DeNA? It would seem that a new title would be to escape responsibilities in some manner, and publisher contractual obligations may be something possible since those folks usually have a litigation team upon retainer, unlike your average Kickstarter backer. It would also seem that 22cans may rightfully tell DeNA where to stick it involving the PC version and what is released upon Steam, because that should be none of DeNA's business unless 22cans were damn stupid fail enough at business to somehow sign rights of that over to DeNA - a detail that I cannot recall there ever being a firm answer about except for some evasiveness (so there might be in some way, history points to likely). If they're planning on surprising folks along the lines of "Ha-ha, we were just kidding about Godus just being a mobile port of a cow clicker clone of some of the most mediocre gameplay elements around; here's the real game." then...well played? They put their reputation and future employment of their hires into the bog for a lark? This is probably why so many new independents were started instead of employees being able to work at other studios - those hiring probably saw 22cans on the CV and had a laugh. Didn't you know? 22cans isn't telling people to go away, so that's why they're giving the silent treatment and hiding all of what they aren't proud of. Since they had basically cloning buildings from other games, algorithms running into each other in slapstick routines, and simple interface twiddling to show...it must really be bad. That is the biggest indication that, and from some recent admissions, these plans were in the works for some time - PM's been doubling down on his dishonesty and is again taking those under his employ with him. Hence why more employees are finding what is acceptable in business and video game design to no longer exist there at the 22cans' offices, if it ever did. After all else, I doubt they're being deceptive to do anything that could be received as good, as they've successfully crushed what little optimism existed upon the Steam forums more than anyone else ever could to the point that such poor PR looks intentional rather than just routine incompetence. Mandrake, I believe they are silent because they can't get their game (I assume the rebranded "Godus Wars") to work as they would like. This is just my supposition. I may be wrong, but given the facts as we know it, this is the conclusion I have reached. |
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Post by morsealworth on Jan 15, 2016 6:29:42 GMT
However, I do think the signs still point to them attempting a PC reboot. What signs? Your wishful thinking? Reread their posts and there was nothing that would go well with PC even once. At best, it simply was ambiguous enough that you may think it has something to do with what you want to see, and that was the same kind of dupe as Kickstarter pitch. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Jan 15, 2016 8:10:11 GMT
I think the silence is just them meeting as many Godus Kickstarter pledges as possible, so they can not get sued. Then they'll say that's it finished and released. Minimum effort to tick off Kickstarter promises is definitely a possibility, what activity we have seen over resent months seems to aim for this. Is the office camera still operating? They turned the camera off ages ago, when we spotted personnel changes on it and questioned it. It was funny, they rearranged desks so the camera didn't look at Fabs or Pavel, and suddenly only richard and a new intern were visible. |
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Post by hardly on Jan 15, 2016 8:16:46 GMT
However, I do think the signs still point to them attempting a PC reboot. What signs? Your wishful thinking? Reread their posts and there was nothing that would go well with PC even once. At best, it simply was ambiguous enough that you may think it has something to do with what you want to see, and that was the same kind of dupe as Kickstarter pitch. I disagree. They are making a second game on steam, it is unlikely they are making a second mobile version of godus (but possible), therefore the most likely scenario is they are attempting a PC reboot based on their combat mechanics. I'm not saying it will be good, I'm not saying it will reflect our feedback and I'm not saying they will have the ability to complete it, but I do think they are trying to develop a new PC title to wash away the taint of old GODUS. |
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Post by Mandrake on Jan 15, 2016 9:45:45 GMT
What signs? Your wishful thinking? Reread their posts and there was nothing that would go well with PC even once. At best, it simply was ambiguous enough that you may think it has something to do with what you want to see, and that was the same kind of dupe as Kickstarter pitch. I disagree. They are making a second game on steam, it is unlikely they are making a second mobile version of godus (but possible), therefore the most likely scenario is they are attempting a PC reboot based on their combat mechanics. I'm not saying it will be good, I'm not saying it will reflect our feedback and I'm not saying they will have the ability to complete it, but I do think they are trying to develop a new PC title to wash away the taint of old GODUS. Since this is 22cans we're talking about, and as Spiderweb pointed out we're dealing with folks who put more effort into trying to hide their dishonesty than doing things right in the first place, then I think the more likely outcome is that "Godus Wars" is paid-for DLC/Asset Bundles via IAP since the latter already exists upon mobiles. Or the latter might be their "code problems" as they have really been figuring out how to paywall the living shit out of the combat like the base game and "story" - those on PC will instead get the Army Camp of Doom. I also doubt that 22cans would offer it to the current Godus owners if they were trying to avoid negative review scores, and so it remains to be seen if they'll try to charge current Godus owners for the "Combat Update". Given their financials...yeah, that sounds like what they would stoop to after having already scammed more than a half a million quid without really much to show for it nor really any remorse shown besides video theatrics. If 22cans had something they could be proud of as a solution to basically the core problems around the PC release...why would they be hiding it? THAT is the thing that really draws suspicion more than anything. |
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Post by hardly on Jan 15, 2016 9:56:01 GMT
I disagree. They are making a second game on steam, it is unlikely they are making a second mobile version of godus (but possible), therefore the most likely scenario is they are attempting a PC reboot based on their combat mechanics. I'm not saying it will be good, I'm not saying it will reflect our feedback and I'm not saying they will have the ability to complete it, but I do think they are trying to develop a new PC title to wash away the taint of old GODUS. Since this is 22cans we're talking about, and as Spiderweb pointed out we're dealing with folks who put more effort into trying to hide their dishonesty than doing things right in the first place, then I think the more likely outcome is that "Godus Wars" is paid-for DLC/Asset Bundles via IAP since the latter already exists upon mobiles. Or the latter might be their "code problems" as they have really been figuring out how to paywall the living shit out of the combat like the base game and "story" - those on PC will instead get the Army Camp of Doom. I also doubt that 22cans would offer it to the current Godus owners if they were trying to avoid negative review scores, and so it remains to be seen if they'll try to charge current Godus owners for the "Combat Update". Given their financials...yeah, that sounds like what they would stoop to after having already scammed more than a half a million quid without really much to show for it nor really any remorse shown besides video theatrics. If 22cans had something they could be proud of as a solution to basically the core problems around the PC release...why would they be hiding it? THAT is the thing that really draws suspicion more than anything. If as you say they release new GODUS content without giving free keys to exisiting owners/backers they will see a shitstorm of bad publicity. |
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Post by morsealworth on Jan 15, 2016 10:58:21 GMT
What signs? Your wishful thinking? Reread their posts and there was nothing that would go well with PC even once. At best, it simply was ambiguous enough that you may think it has something to do with what you want to see, and that was the same kind of dupe as Kickstarter pitch. I disagree. They are making a second game on steam, it is unlikely they are making a second mobile version of godus (but possible), therefore the most likely scenario is they are attempting a PC reboot based on their combat mechanics. I'm not saying it will be good, I'm not saying it will reflect our feedback and I'm not saying they will have the ability to complete it, but I do think they are trying to develop a new PC title to wash away the taint of old GODUS. See, even those inferences are wishful thinking in the end. There is a possibility of what you are suggesting, a slim one, and that is enough for you to think this slim possibility is big because it is what you want to happen and thus disregard other possibilities, making them appear smaller. The same crap as with gambling. |
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Post by totallytim on Jan 15, 2016 12:17:43 GMT
It's very unlikely they had the PC community in mind when they though of Godus Wars. It was probably the brainchild of new CEO Simon whos last jobs was to release mobile games for China with Peter as the godfather who seems to have found a new passion in simple mobile games.
I believe it's more likely Godus Wars will be f2p with in app purchases. It would be far more difficult to explain turning a game that everyone paid for to f2p at "release" after repeating all the "PC Godus isn't f2p thus there is a big difference between it and the mobile version" over and over again. Plus they get to somewhat circumvent negative reviews.
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Post by Mandrake on Jan 15, 2016 12:39:54 GMT
If as you say they release new GODUS content without giving free keys to exisiting owners/backers they will see a shitstorm of bad publicity. Publicity doesn't seem to be much of a care of 22cans lately and wasn't a care in the first place except to scam the faithful. The only problem I see with totallytim's assessment is that if Godus Wars were released as F2P on Steam then anyone could load up the game and play for 5 minutes to be eligible to write a review, so there wouldn't even need to be a matter of refund policy involved to deter from bad reviews. Then again, 22cans' planning hasn't exactly been the most brilliant around... |
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Post by totallytim on Jan 15, 2016 14:00:11 GMT
"This looks like a mobile game/timewaster and is free to play. I kinda like f2p mobile games, so let's give it a try. Hmm, it starts off ok and it kept me kinda entertained for a week or so, 3.5/5. Hey it was free so I'm not going to shit on it. I have no idea what Godus was, so I might as well give it a thumbs up or just don't bother reviewing it."
It being and looking f2p will probably attract the audience 22Cans wants. Hopefully most Godus backers already gave up and moved on. You can also always find people who're willing to defend a product no matter what and 22Cans & co. will probably encourage such behaviour... am I right Aynen?
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Post by hardly on Jan 15, 2016 18:19:56 GMT
I disagree. They are making a second game on steam, it is unlikely they are making a second mobile version of godus (but possible), therefore the most likely scenario is they are attempting a PC reboot based on their combat mechanics. I'm not saying it will be good, I'm not saying it will reflect our feedback and I'm not saying they will have the ability to complete it, but I do think they are trying to develop a new PC title to wash away the taint of old GODUS. See, even those inferences are wishful thinking in the end. There is a possibility of what you are suggesting, a slim one, and that is enough for you to think this slim possibility is big because it is what you want to happen and thus disregard other possibilities, making them appear smaller. The same crap as with gambling. No wishful thinking here, I don't expect them to release anything good or even manage to release whatever they are working on so I'm not sitting here wishing that they'll release something. Having said that I could be wrong, I am after all giving 22cans the benefit of the doubt. |
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Post by morsealworth on Jan 15, 2016 22:49:44 GMT
And that is precisely what is called wishful thinking - giving benefit of the doubt against overwhelming odds just because you wish it wasn't so.
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Post by hardly on Jan 16, 2016 2:54:02 GMT
And that is precisely what is called wishful thinking - giving benefit of the doubt against overwhelming odds just because you wish it wasn't so. No, giving the benefit of the doubt is giving the benefit of the doubt, wishful thinking is wishful thinking.
You keep saying "just because you wish it so", I don't wish it so. Quite frankly I couldn't care less. I'm pretty sure no matter what they do the game will continue to be shit, I only stick around here to observe their failures. If (against my expectations) they happen to do something good I'll observe that too but don't expect it and I'm definitely not wishing for it.
As for benefit of the doubt that means - "When giving someone the benefit of the doubt, you are believing what they say and taking their word because you, yourself, have some doubt about what happened." (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Benefit+of+the+doubt)
I don't know what 22Cans are doing with GODUS Wars but they claim to be working on a PC only implementation of combat and the Emerald Prophet or whatever his name was said he'd seen it. These two facts combined strongly suggest GODUS Wars will be the release of this PC prototype. I don't know for a fact that this is what happening but the facts I do know support what 22Cans are saying and my interpretation.
I'm not a 22Cans apologist or a fan but in the absence of other evidence I'm going to assume the reason they are taking so long to release combat is that they are incompetent rather than liars.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Jan 16, 2016 3:00:00 GMT
I'm not a 22Cans apologist or a fan but in the absence of other evidence I'm going to assume the reason they are taking so long to release combat is that they are incompetent rather than liars. To be a little fairer, though, I feel like since much of the team has been replaced by some maybe green guys, now it's a grand mixture of incompetence and inexperience. Incompetence from whatever senior staff are still overseeing the thing, and inexperience from the guys who didn't realize what crap they were signing on for. At least, I don't think the new guys have that much prior experience in their respective fields. I could be entirely wrong on that. |
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Post by Mandrake on Jan 16, 2016 23:00:11 GMT
hardly: It's difficult to consider giving 22cans the benefit of the doubt on this because their silence belies their narrative as per much evidence of their own history. As such, with that silence, whatever is presented is surely going to be dodgy as hell and it will be up to us to spot their dishonesty. Or maybe another one of their departing employees might give a bit more details along that. I'm not a 22Cans apologist or a fan but in the absence of other evidence I'm going to assume the reason they are taking so long to release combat is that they are incompetent rather than liars. To be a little fairer, though, I feel like since much of the team has been replaced by some maybe green guys, now it's a grand mixture of incompetence and inexperience. Incompetence from whatever senior staff are still overseeing the thing, and inexperience from the guys who didn't realize what crap they were signing on for. At least, I don't think the new guys have that much prior experience in their respective fields. I could be entirely wrong on that. If only the press could generally stomach listening to and reprinting his lies for more than ten minutes at a time (for their comments section to explode with ridicule aimed in his way) then they could find a lot more material from all the developer speeches Peter's damaging new, ignorant developers with just like he does with his hires. Thankfully, other developers and some press do keep copies of these speeches, but sadly they are not transcribed for people to readily see for themselves how insane PM has become - by his own words. (Particularly around the 18m13s mark - along with some other moments as these folks mentioned:https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/34g054/peter_molyneux_speech_at_reboot_develop_2015/ ) (Paraphrased out some of the mumble.) "The other way, the bizarre way of recruiting people - and this still works today - is to hunt out people with no experience. (Cameraman has a laugh.) Recruitment agencies make this one terrible mistake - they filter people by their experience. I don't want experienced people...because experience often, very often - not always - but very often means the dampening of the most brilliant human quality. And the most brilliant human quality is excitement and drive. I'll give you one example of this, we were recruiting a coder at 22cans very recently. There were a couple of candidates, and one of the candidates had pretty good experience, good university track record, all of that stuff, but he lacked something and excitement. He said to me 'I'm really interested in programming challenges' and he had lots of free time that he filled with some bizarre hobbies. And the other guy, and he was just on the edge of his seat saying 'I can't wait - I've never programmed a game before, but I can't wait to see my code in the game' That was the line, that what you wanted. Maybe he didn't have the experience but he had the drive. The enthusiasm. And if we really are going to take that invention process seriously - that's what you need, that's the fuel you need, the drive and enthusiasm to embrace insanity and craziness." Going at a title with inexperienced programmers definitely does sound like insanity...and barely anything usable compared to the mountains of work for your QA dept. (Sound familiar from the updates?) The "most brilliant human quality" PM has really been looking for is ignorance of better development, because developers DO know what happens when you have experienced know when they're on a good project - magic happens; when the title is obviously shit you tend to have even the most experienced acting as jobsworths because that is the setting of the company's production. People excited to work on shit - anyone interested? I didn't think so...and all it can take is burning yourself out on a shit title from the start to sour your experiences, and that is the "experience" PM has been giving these new folks, so that means... Peter Molyneux is intentionally abusing and damaging new developers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 0:51:07 GMT
I'm really excited to become the Queen of England and cant WAIT to see myself in Buckingham Palace!
Now can I have Simons job?! I've obviously got the enthusiasm.
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Post by hardly on Jan 17, 2016 1:15:23 GMT
Mandrake, as far I'm concerned 22Cans is one of the worst run companies on the face of the planet and that little gem is just further proof of how Peter's approach to management is dangerous.
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Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
