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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jun 30, 2014 12:32:02 GMT
Except I didn't tell anyone to go die in a fire. I told a corporate construct that. The post was constructive, was not trolling, and you simply dislike my pointing out that 22cans has been all talk and no product. I state that I am an asshole. I have never stated that I like it nor that I reserve the right to anything. I state it up front so folks don't get their undies all knotted on the assumption that there is any personal insults intended. You chose to ignore the actual post and read what you desired into it. Think skin nothing more, and sad abuse of power should be opposed and pointed out. You seriously think I don't know what DIAF actually stands for? I've been on forums since '94! Then you come on this forum saying you've earned cred for getting banned even though you hadn't yet? How stupid do you think I am?? Do you think I don't keep track of these things? Your ban was well-deserved and you know it - fallacious, weak and pathetic arguments to the contrary make no difference to that. If I banned people who were critical of 22cans, there'd be nobody left on the Steam forums. You gleefully crossed a line in an effort to goad us and now you're paying for the consequences of your actions. I suggest you man up and deal with it, instead of bleating now that I've halted your ill-intentioned "fun". |
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Post by banned on Jun 30, 2014 12:32:09 GMT
Do you mean this post? That's me genuinely trying to be constructive and make that conversation progressive - I'm surprised you could take that any other way? It is never my intention to piss anybody off on purpose - I've a hard enough time making sure I don't do it accidentally, last thing I want is a fight on my hands! As it is, I've given TigrisMorte a 3 day ban for his response to Muir. Like it or not, Muir is a mod and TigrisMorte was taking intentionally baiting, trolling and arguing with him. It's only for three days, so it's not what I would consider a big deal but if it happens again, then it'll be 30. Exactly opposite since Muir was baiting and has trolled me on numerous occasions, but whatever. He wanted an excuse and I gave one with a little prodding. But no worries, one set of rules for the cheerleaders, nothing new. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jun 30, 2014 12:34:14 GMT
But no worries, one set of rules for the cheerleaders, nothing new. Oh I forgot your usual posting posting style is conducted with such honour and respect. And just in case you missed my meaning, I was being sarcastic. |
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 12:38:00 GMT
Those kind of posts aren't funny or constructive and I wouldn't have tolerated them either. Telling somebody to GDIAF is a prime example of baiting/trolling and part of our job on the Steam forums is to uphold the Steam forum rules. If you can't participate in a conversation without resorting to banal, childish threats and insults, then perhaps you shouldn't participate at all. Now I know that by his own admission Tigris is likely to say "but I'm an asshole, I like acting like an asshole and I reserve the right to act like an asshole". Well, I'm afraid I don't tolerate such behaviour on any of the forums I run, especially as it breaches the forum's rules with which I am tasked to uphold. So, either pitch in and be constructive or post elsewhere. Like here, for example. Except I didn't tell anyone to go die in a fire. I told a corporate construct that. The post was constructive, was not trolling, and you simply dislike my pointing out that 22cans has been all talk and no product. I state that I am an asshole. I have never stated that I like it nor that I reserve the right to anything. I state it up front so folks don't get their undies all knotted on the assumption that there is any personal insults intended. You chose to ignore the actual post and read what you desired into it. Think skin nothing more, and sad abuse of power should be opposed and pointed out. I am going to play Devil's advocate for a minute here. 22cans is a corporation but really a business has people working for it and so when you wish a horrible death to business, does it not infer that you wish ill will to the actual employees as well? I could understand you wishing business horrible things to a company like " I hope you go bankrupt and have o shut your doors down" or " I hope your bill collectors harass you daily and your bank calls in all your loans" but I hope you die in a fire is not really something a business can do, because while the building that might hold it could burn to the ground it would not kill the business. It would have insurance and have a new building, so this is where an inference of a threat to the employees come to mind because if there was a fire in their building they could actually die. If someone were to tell me that they hoped my company would die in a fire, it would be quite upsetting so this is where I can understand where a Mod can and should step in. This is not to say that they would not freak out over the other comments I mentioned but at least there is no inference of ill will to actual people in that one. The whole lake thing, just made me chuckle. As a mod, I would have said "touche" on that one and let it go. He should really think about picking his battles a bit more and have a bit of a sense of humor. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 12:51:47 GMT
Do you mean this post? That's me genuinely trying to be constructive and make that conversation progressive - I'm surprised you could take that any other way? It is never my intention to piss anybody off on purpose - I've a hard enough time making sure I don't do it accidentally, last thing I want is a fight on my hands! As it is, I've given TigrisMorte a 3 day ban for his response to Muir. Like it or not, Muir is a mod and TigrisMorte was taking intentionally baiting, trolling and arguing with him. It's only for three days, so it's not what I would consider a big deal but if it happens again, then it'll be 30. Ah come on. Quote: "Please would you expand on this? How do you propose this system would work, exactly? Please would you give some mechanical examples?" We have explained this paritcular suggestion a feeled 200 million times in different versions. As we did with most other things you are talking about in this thread - see clicking (oh, sorry i don't understand, do you mean dragging?) I am sure if you browse the different Forums you will find more than one thread about "dragging is better than endless clicking but the game has still too much clicking. Stellen wir uns halt mal ahnungslos. Only thing missing was something like "your feedback is very important and i will forward this to the dev team" - the 22cans standard rebuff.
Maybe you meant it really genuinely or maybe you really think you meant it genuinely but after one 1 1/2 years of it i am used of that kind of blah.
By the way, you can ban him 20 years, i don't care. And yes it should never get personal. And i have to say that i am a friendly and settled character, i never got banned or anything else (since i bought my first modem to play UO in 1997) but the way 22cans handles this Kickstarter makes me angry and i stay away from the steam forums because i know i am not sure it would end good.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jun 30, 2014 12:58:45 GMT
Maybe you meant it really genuinely or maybe you really think you meant it genuinely but after one 1 1/2 years of it i am used of that kind of blah.
Please bear in mind I've barely been with 22cans for 1 1/2 months, let alone 1 1/2 years, so a lot of this is still new to me. Plus, we'd been having such success with the Work In Progress thread here on this forum, I thought I'd be able to get some genuinely useful feedback using the same methods there. Additionally, "resource generation/collection and logistics" is an enormous change from Gopdus' current mechanics and can/does mean a lot of different things to different people, especially as such systems have been implemeted in a variety of ways by different games. As such, I don't think asking for clarification on that specific point could be seen as trying to wind up the OP - I was genuinely looking to see what his own interpretation of those mechanics were. |
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stuhacking
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Post by stuhacking on Jun 30, 2014 13:07:23 GMT
Quick question: Does a Steam forum ban lock you out of your steam games library? Or does that require a higher-level ban? I'm just asking... for a friend...  (Actually just out of curiosity.. I've never been banned and don't intend to start now.  ) |
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 13:10:52 GMT
Maybe you meant it really genuinely or maybe you really think you meant it genuinely but after one 1 1/2 years of it i am used of that kind of blah.
Please bear in mind I've barely been with 22cans for 1 1/2 months, let alone 1 1/2 years, so a lot of this is still new to me. Plus, we'd been having such success with the Work In Progress thread here on this forum, I thought I'd be able to get some genuinely useful feedback using the same methods there. Additionally, "resource generation/collection and logistics" is an enormous change from Gopdus' current mechanics and can/does mean a lot of different things to different people, especially as such systems have been implemeted in a variety of ways by different games. As such, I don't think asking for clarification on that specific point could be seen as trying to wind up the OP - I was genuinely looking to see what his own interpretation of those mechanics were. Dude don't you know, we rule!! Plus you don't have the world's best Mods there.  Okay kidding aside, I think we get more constructive posts here because we allow the negative ones. If Steam were to allow some negative threads, complete with disclaimers, then it would give people a place to bitch and vent. Once they felt they had yelled it out, then there are more ready to discuss things in a more constructive way as well. It is not to say that people will still not be pissed but trying to gag people generally only makes them yell louder. Steam is not a community forum, it is a developer forum. It is innately bias and always will be, people that go there and think that is is their right to say as they wish, get disappointed, angry and frustrated. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 13:23:51 GMT
Maybe you meant it really genuinely or maybe you really think you meant it genuinely but after one 1 1/2 years of it i am used of that kind of blah.
Please bear in mind I've barely been with 22cans for 1 1/2 months, let alone 1 1/2 years, so a lot of this is still new to me. Plus, we'd been having such success with the Work In Progress thread here on this forum, I thought I'd be able to get some genuinely useful feedback using the same methods there. Additionally, "resource generation/collection and logistics" is an enormous change from Gopdus' current mechanics and can/does mean a lot of different things to different people, especially as such systems have been implemeted in a variety of ways by different games. As such, I don't think asking for clarification on that specific point could be seen as trying to wind up the OP - I was genuinely looking to see what his own interpretation of those mechanics were. Oh, you can be assured that i bear this in mind.
Isn't that what People in this thread said? It's not about a single person (even if there are a few who maybe are a bit more problematic than others) it's about the Company how it acts and which seems to have no clue what's going on or maybe just doing like having no clue what's going on.
Yes you are new, but now you represent 22cans and 22cans got this feedback you are asking for 200 million times in the past. And in five month, when there will be a new 22cans representative we have to explain it again? What do you think this looks like? It looks like: 22cans Community Guy:"Ah again a suggestion about Stickers and resource gathering. Throw it in the bin." or maybe like "22cans community guy:"Hey designer guy, here is a great Suggestion about Stickers and resource gathering" ... 22cans design guy:"Ah not again, throw it in the bin". or maybe like 22cans community guy:"Ah what a great Suggestion about stickers and resource gathering i put it directly on the great suggestion put in game pile" ... 22cans cleaner guy:"Oh again such a big pile of paper to throw in the bin".
If you have another one you can explain it or better ask Peter to explain what is planned. But don't do it on paper, you know how it ends.
I don't like tigrismortes kind of writing(sometimes), he can be an ...... and he tells it everyone, but even if i don't like exactly what he says and how, it's i can understand that people get more and more angry.
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 30, 2014 14:11:47 GMT
Without wanting to pass judgement on either side of the fence, I will give my opinion. The internet is a wonderful place where people feel free. They take the liberty to express themselves in whichever way they see fit whether that be politely or aggravatingly or just plain gross. It is because of this freedom that people use words online that they would not use in a real life conversation. Exaggeration is prime. Whereas someone would in real life ask someone to kindly leave them alone or tell them to piss off, on the internet that same meaning is conveyed more readily as "go suck a donkey dick", and I don't think that example is even that wild. This is firstly because there are little to no consequences to saying something like that online, it is not like you're gonna get a fist between your teeth for doing so whereas in real life you might stand that risk. Secondly, everybody knows that the internet is like this. Therefore someone who writes something offending can do so knowing that the receiving party is aware that shit happens on the internet. The receiving party is expected to not really give a crap about it or to respond in kind.
As for DIAF, it is an acronym. In my opinion this makes it less harsh than actually writing "die in a fire". There are lots of acronyms floating around on the internet and a lot of them have evolved to be used in ways that are very different from how they originally came to be. When I read DIAF I recognize that it means die in a fire but my brain translates that into piss off. I really don't think anyone who uses the acronym DIAF would actually want anyone to die in a fire. Most of the times when I use the acronym LOL I am not actually laughing out loud in reality (though sometimes I am) but I am having some sort of chuckle internally. This is a similar discrepancy between reality and online text, though I expect not everyone might see that the same way.
That said, the steam forum comes with its rules and with its moderators that interpret those rules. It is not for me to judge how a moderator on steam should react to someone using the term DIAF. I can recognize the fact that it might not be wishful to have people using terms like this unchallenged. In the end it's all about maintaining a balance by sometimes being strict and sometimes being lenient considering each individual situation at hand. The question is where you want the balance to lie.
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 14:18:22 GMT
Without wanting to pass judgement on either side of the fence, I will give my opinion. The internet is a wonderful place where people feel free. They take the liberty to express themselves in whichever way they see fit whether that be politely or aggravatingly or just plain gross. It is because of this freedom that people use words online that they would not use in a real life conversation. Exaggeration is prime. Whereas someone would in real life ask someone to kindly leave them alone or tell them to piss off, on the internet that same meaning is conveyed more readily as "go suck a donkey dick", and I don't think that example is even that wild. This is firstly because there are little to no consequences to saying something like that online, it is not like you're gonna get a fist between your teeth for doing so whereas in real life you might stand that risk. Secondly, everybody knows that the internet is like this. Therefore someone who writes something offending can do so knowing that the receiving party is aware that shit happens on the internet. The receiving party is expected to not really give a crap about it or to respond in kind. As for DIAF, it is an acronym. In my opinion this makes it less harsh than actually writing "die in a fire". There are lots of acronyms floating around on the internet and a lot of them have evolved to be used in ways that are very different from how they originally came to be. When I read DIAF I recognize that it means die in a fire but my brain translates that into piss off. I really don't think anyone who uses the acronym DIAF would actually want anyone to die in a fire. Most of the times when I use the acronym LOL I am not actually laughing out loud in reality (though sometimes I am) but I am having some sort of chuckle internally. This is a similar discrepancy between reality and online text, though I expect not everyone might see that the same way. That said, the steam forum comes with its rules and with its moderators that interpret those rules. It is not for me to judge how a moderator on steam should react to someone using the term DIAF. I can recognize the fact that it might not be wishful to have people using terms like this unchallenged. In the end it's all about maintaining a balance by sometimes being strict and sometimes being lenient considering each individual situation at hand. The question is where you want the balance to lie. I tend to disagree with this bit, but I get your point. I think that while we all know it is just on the internet there are still some lines that should not be breached such as " Go fuck an old lady" or "go molest a tween" are far beyond anything that should ever be said be it online or in RL. This is also the fact that you can inflict intentional or un-intentional trauma to another poster by words online if you step over enough lines. Whether or not DIAF does or not, is up to interpretation. This being said, I think we can all agree that whether or not DIAF steps over that line or not, my above two comments would have and yes there could be far far far worse said. |
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 30, 2014 14:22:08 GMT
I tend to disagree with this bit, but I get your point. I think that while we all know it is just on the internet there are still some lines that should not be breached such as " Go fuck an old lady" or "go molest a tween" are far beyond anything that should ever be said be it online or in RL. But I bet there are plenty of old ladies out there that would love to be fucked and isn't molesting what tweens are for? |
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Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 30, 2014 14:22:28 GMT
Did I just cross a line?
Oops!
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 14:24:16 GMT
I tend to disagree with this bit, but I get your point. I think that while we all know it is just on the internet there are still some lines that should not be breached such as " Go fuck an old lady" or "go molest a tween" are far beyond anything that should ever be said be it online or in RL. But I bet there are plenty of old ladies out there that would love to be fucked and isn't molesting what tweens are for? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.......................................yes girls and he is all mine too. |
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 14:25:08 GMT
Did I just cross a line? Oops! If I was a nun, you would have gotten your knuckles smacked by a ruler by now.  |
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Lord Ba'al
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Posts: 6,260
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 30, 2014 14:26:05 GMT
Did I just cross a line? Oops! If I was a nun, you would have gotten your knuckles smacked by a ruler by now. And I'd pretend I didn't like it. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jun 30, 2014 14:29:27 GMT
Quick question: Does a Steam forum ban lock you out of your steam games library? Or does that require a higher-level ban No, not at all - all they do is prevent you from participating in forum discussions. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Jun 30, 2014 15:41:27 GMT
Like it or not, Muir is a mod .. which is, repeatedly, an embarrassing situation that reflects poorly on you and your company. Like it or not. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jun 30, 2014 15:47:47 GMT
Like it or not, Muir is a mod .. which is, repeatedly, an embarrassing situation that reflects poorly on you and your company. Like it or not. We're bringing on more. Also, I don't have an issue with Muir's moderation - I find him diligent and effective. He's far less of an ego-manic than I am, for example. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Jun 30, 2014 15:54:07 GMT
Chalk it up to yet another situation where the public perception doesn't match the internal one, then. The schadenfreude train keeps on rolling.
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)
Okay kidding aside, I think we get more constructive posts here because we allow the negative ones. If Steam were to allow some negative threads, complete with disclaimers, then it would give people a place to bitch and vent. Once they felt they had yelled it out, then there are more ready to discuss things in a more constructive way as well. It is not to say that people will still not be pissed but trying to gag people generally only makes them yell louder. Steam is not a community forum, it is a developer forum. It is innately bias and always will be, people that go there and think that is is their right to say as they wish, get disappointed, angry and frustrated. 
