Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 18:33:39 GMT
I, for one, genuinely appreciate your unfiltered honesty. Thanks
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149 
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on Jul 1, 2014 18:58:59 GMT
Thats not because you guys are in the community team but rather for comparing 6 day timers with 5-80 seconds timers on Starcraft. Or a timer that can completely hinder you from progression with the building timers in Sim City. I can't see that as anything else than downplaying the serious problems with timers and trying to make them seem like something that is part of every strategy game. You guys are surely smart enough to know the difference between them yourselves.
Or using technical terms to say something unpleasant (We don't want to change the mechanic but the metaphor = We don't really want to change anything in terms of gameplay but give it a new taint / animation).
Or arguing with technicalities (Godus on PC is not a F2P game because its not free, stop saying its like a F2P game!11111) while completely ignoring the point.
Or filling paragraphs with marketing spin for something that could be reduced to one single short sentence.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jul 1, 2014 19:07:22 GMT
Thats not because you guys are in the community team but rather for comparing 6 day timers with 5-80 seconds timers on Starcraft. Or a timer that can completely hinder you from progression with the building timers in Sim City. I can't see that as anything else than downplaying the serious problems with timers and trying to make them seem like something that is part of every strategy game. Or using technical terms to say something unpleasant (We don't want to change the mechanic but the metaphor = We don't really want to change anything in terms of gameplay but give it a new taint / animation). Or arguing with technicalities (Godus is not a F2P game because its not free!11111) while completely ignoring the point. Or filling paragraphs with marketing spin for something that could be reduced to one single short sentence. That is completely and utterly disingenuous. On timers: Jack just said we're aware that timers need to be rebalanced in order to bring them in-line with non-F2P PC strategy games. We're not downplaying, we're saying it's on the to-be-fixed list. On technical terms, esp. metaphors: If that's your reading of the conversation, I suggest you re-read my posts. I never said we didn't want change deep level mechanics, what I said was how surprised I was that so many concerns surrounded our design metaphors rather than purely being focused on game mechanics. On F2P: We haven't ignored the point - you don't want F2P mechanics in Godus on PC. We recognise that. Unfortunately, I won't have any solutions to present to you until the PC sprint. There are plenty of short sentences I'd like to share with you and I have to constantly remind myself to retain my composure. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Jul 1, 2014 19:21:07 GMT
No he's been on the 22Cans forum since the beginning. Always extremely positive towards 22Cans to the point of utter ridiculousness. Much like Muir, only more likeable. We'll see what happens with that after he's been modding for a while. Not trying to stir anything up, particularly as George's post above mine seems to have a note of resolution to it, but I suppose this is on a slightly different note (and this is a general response not necessarily directed at you, Lord Ba'al). But I honestly don't imagine it should be all that surprising that we'd select a moderator who has a generally optimistic spirit towards the game. We're not looking for a "yes man" but we also have to keep the broader context of things in mind. There seems to be a bit of a misnomer that anyone who has anything positive to say about the game must clearly be disingenuous. Frankly, that's a bit silly in my opinion. Saying someone's opinion is invalid because they have an opinion, especially when they've never pretended otherwise, is a bit much. On a similar note, and for those who are curious, here's a quick recap of Aynen's community history. He joined the backer forums (which means he's a backer, just like many of you here) on 31st January, 2013. At 12:51pm. In the near year and a half that he's been a member of that community he has contributed 926 posts to date. That's very nearly 1,000 posts! He has always lurked on Steam and is keenly aware of it and its history but posted there sparingly. Muir is typically more active on Steam but less active on the backer forums. Aynen is typically more active on the backer forums but less active on Steam. We felt this complimentary coverage was optimal. Also, even before he was a moderator he would personally reach out to me on Facebook, Twitter, Skype, and private messages on the forums giving me suggestions for what the community would like to see, their concerns, and so forth. For example, when I first mentioned that the forums were getting revamped he got in touch the very next day with some suggestions and changes that we might want to consider. He genuinely wants the best for this community and, ultimately, the game that we're all here talking about. We also needed more help on the community front for a number of reasons, two of which are that things will be getting quite busy when the PC sprint comes around and also because George and I are fairly busy already. We're not looking for manpower, we're looking for support. Optimally, Aynen isn't here to discipline but to help fill in some gaps on the community team. Lastly, I find it a bit demoralizing that some of you seem so vehemently convinced that because George and I work on the community team that we, surely, must be marketing goons with no souls whose only function is being a mouthpiece for some corporate mastermind. Perhaps this is me being a tad too forward but I don't think you realize that, in many ways, George and I are some of your biggest supporters. We're in your corner more than you may realize. Granted, it's a two way street of meeting the needs of the game while meeting the needs of the community and we try to make these two things mesh as much as we can (and without the influence of any of our own opinions, bias or otherwise). We're gamers, just like you. Hell, take a look at my Steam profile. I love games. And I, just like many of you, have my own opinions on what is and isn't a good game. So when I share that opinion, whether it's about another game or the one we're working on, I am truly being genuine. I personally feel that someone in my position should never support or espouse a game in which they do not personally believe in. So if I talk positively about the game then that's because I genuinely like something about it. There are countless opportunities for community work in this industry, which is to say that I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to be. Anyhow, my apologies for any possible ranting that just occurred. I'm always pretty direct with you guys, even when it skirts a fine line. It's my hope that you all appreciate that directness, if only because I feel it's important. Thanks for the rundown on Aynen, I was genuinely curious since I'd rarely seen him/her post over on Steam which left me wondering where the person came from. With the rest, I can't blame you, but I'd say it just comes with the territory. It's not that many people here want to distrust you, it's that it's basically hammered into a large portion of people to be jaded towards any business and yours in particular, as you've admitted in the past, hasn't had the best track record to say the least, which only serves to reinforce that baseline distrust towards businesses. That's partly speculation on my part regarding people's behavior, but it's also the gist I've gotten whenever business discussions come up in conversation online. People generally always have some gripe, be it minor or major, with almost any business that they've encountered. As such when marketers or PR/CR people come around, they generally paint them up with much of their negative experience from the past, regardless of the distinct personhood of those people. They say don't shoot the messenger, but unfortunately often, businesses ship out people like you laden with the nitroglycerin of null information and the negative experiences of the past they've given their customers, then expect you to put up with it and their customers to buy what you're selling. Except it's so much easier to tap the crates and watch what you lot give us explode. |
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stuhacking
Master
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Post by stuhacking on Jul 1, 2014 19:34:47 GMT
Anyhow, my apologies for any possible ranting that just occurred. I'm always pretty direct with you guys, even when it skirts a fine line. It's my hope that you all appreciate that directness, if only because I feel it's important. We appreciate your candour!   |
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 1, 2014 19:34:55 GMT
I'm just saddened you choose to go so far positive. I would have preferred someone more middle of the road. If you put too much sugar in your coffee, it just tastes gross. Don't put enough, it is bitter, just the right amount...perfection.
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on Jul 1, 2014 19:36:24 GMT
While I understand and recognise that concerns you've raised about Godus on PC leveraging F2P mechanics and the assertion that this makes the PC game play too much like a freemium mobile game, the fact of the matter is that it's not a F2P game on PC - there is an up-front cost and no in-game shop or micro-transactions. Exactly what I said - its not a F2P game because its technically not free as an answer to complains of Godus resembling a F2P game... Its a focus on a technicality while completely ignoring the point. Are timers inherently F2P and need for in-game currency? No, because they exist in action-RTS games like C&C and StarCraft. There's numerous games which do have hidden timers such as building construction in most RTS games like Command & Conquer, Starcraft, and so on. Comparing the timers of Godus (which are inherently F2P in their nature) with building timers of other RTS. IMHO it does have timers, you just don't see them. When you're zoning an area, for example, you need to wait for buildings of a specific type to appear and then upgrade themselves. Addimitedly it's dependent on a number of factors - electricity, water supply etc. - but it does still take time. Comparing them with the "timers" of Sim City. I don't see much sense in pointing out that timers aren't inherently bad other than downplaying the timers and shrines etc. of Godus. Beside every realtime game has to track time, that is vastly different from the timers currently present in Godus, comparing them doesn't make much sense at all in my opinion. Though I admit that might not been your intention. Though judging by the answers to that posts I quoted I'm not the only that thought that this was your intention. ... with Stickers, rather than completely discard the existing resource gathering mechanic, how would you improve the existing rules and metaphors? The existing resource gathering mechanic is to dig up chests that are randomly placed over the map, do minigames and click pink bubbles. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 1, 2014 19:42:04 GMT
Not trying to stir anything up, particularly as George's post above mine seems to have a note of resolution to it, but I suppose this is on a slightly different note (and this is a general response not necessarily directed at you, Lord Ba'al). But I honestly don't imagine it should be all that surprising that we'd select a moderator who has a generally optimistic spirit towards the game. We're not looking for a "yes man" but we also have to keep the broader context of things in mind. There seems to be a bit of a misnomer that anyone who has anything positive to say about the game must clearly be disingenuous. Frankly, that's a bit silly in my opinion. Saying someone's opinion is invalid because they have an opinion, especially when they've never pretended otherwise, is a bit much. I'm sorry, I may have been a bit careless in choosing my words. It was not my intention to paint Aynen in a bad light. I was also not passing judgement on you guys for selecting Aynen as a mod as I understand the reasoning for that. My intention was to inform Gmr Leon about how I've seen Aynen act on the 22Cans forums. I've never seen Aynen be negative about any aspect of Godus or the behaviour of 22Cans. Except maybe for one instance where he skirted the border of being somewhat negative. Considering the track record of 22Cans to date with all the miscommunications and lack of communications that have come to pass it is in the least very surprising to see someone maintain his positivity. Now I generally like people who are positive. However, there comes a point where positivity simply isn't believable anymore. That is why I phrased it as "to the point of utter ridiculousness". I'm sure that Aynen will prove to be a far more likeable mod than Muir is to most people. But I think he has to beware of the trap that he might fall into if he doesn't maintain an objective view. There's nothing wrong with being mister positive as long as you recognize when there are moments where you need to let that go. Also I never intended to give the impression that I viewed him as disingenuous. |
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
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Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Jul 1, 2014 19:45:27 GMT
Not trying to stir anything up, particularly as George's post above mine seems to have a note of resolution to it, but I suppose this is on a slightly different note (and this is a general response not necessarily directed at you, Lord Ba'al). But I honestly don't imagine it should be all that surprising that we'd select a moderator who has a generally optimistic spirit towards the game. We're not looking for a "yes man" but we also have to keep the broader context of things in mind. There seems to be a bit of a misnomer that anyone who has anything positive to say about the game must clearly be disingenuous. Frankly, that's a bit silly in my opinion. Saying someone's opinion is invalid because they have an opinion, especially when they've never pretended otherwise, is a bit much. I'm sorry, I may have been a bit careless in choosing my words. It was not my intention to paint Aynen in a bad light. I was also not passing judgement on you guys for selecting Aynen as a mod as I understand the reasoning for that. My intention was to inform Gmr Leon about how I've seen Aynen act on the 22Cans forums. I've never seen Aynen be negative about any aspect of Godus or the behaviour of 22Cans. Except maybe for one instance where he skirted the border of being somewhat negative. Considering the track record of 22Cans to date with all the miscommunications and lack of communications that have come to pass it is in the least very surprising to see someone maintain his positivity. Now I generally like people who are positive. However, there comes a point where positivity simply isn't believable anymore. That is why I phrased it as "to the point of utter ridiculousness". I'm sure that Aynen will prove to be a far more likeable mod than Muir is to most people. But I think he has to beware of the trap that he might fall into if he doesn't maintain an objective view. There's nothing wrong with being mister positive as long as you recognize when there are moments where you need to let that go. Also I never intended to give the impression that I viewed him as disingenuous. No worries, Ba'al! My response was kind of broadly addressing the general spirit of the recent posts, not yours in particular.  Thanks to everyone else for chiming in as well. Always glad to see when me being forward doesn't blow up in my face, haha. |
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Post by rubgish on Jul 1, 2014 19:48:40 GMT
I'm just saddened you choose to go so far positive. I would have preferred someone more middle of the road. If you put too much sugar in your coffee, it just tastes gross. Don't put enough, it is bitter, just the right amount...perfection. Of course the perfect option would be to forgo coffee altogether and just have a nice cup of tea instead In terms of the actual topic of moderators, pretty much having an extra person is always going to be a good thing because when it's just you, it's very easy to feel overwhelmed and potentially not respond in the best possible way. With a second person that'll help with the workload and also with getting a second opinion if you aren't sure of things (I know the proper 22cans staff help with this too, but they have a lot of other stuff on their plates). In terms of Aynen, i've seen them around a bunch which is pretty much a good sign. I don't really have a very strong opinion either way. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jul 1, 2014 20:08:04 GMT
SplitterWind, it comes across to me like you're deliberately choosing to ignore context so as to further your own points of view. I am exasperated. I'm so tired of debating with you as an individual. This does not go for the rest of the community. Exactly what I said - its not a F2P game because its technically not free as an answer to complains of Godus resembling a F2P game... Its a focus on a technicality while completely ignoring the point. I feel I ought to repeat the first part of that sentence, where I said - and allow me to put it in bold - I understand and recognise the concerns you've raised about Godus on PC leveraging F2P mechanics and the assertion that this makes the PC game play too much like a freemium mobile game. So no, I hadn't missed the point. In fact, I referenced it in my reply. Even so, that reply was in the ongoing context of accusations of fraudulent activity or breaches of consumer-protection regulations. Comparing the timers of Godus (which are inherently F2P in their nature) with building timers of other RTS. A comparison does not mean I'm equating one with the other. The clear implication here is that I would like to see our timers brought in-line with the examples I'd given - i.e. StarCraft and C&C - given the context of the PC sprint in which we'll be focusing our development efforts later on this year. A timer is a timer is a timer and therefore a comparison is valid. Comparing them with the "timers" of Sim City. I don't see much sense in pointing out that timers aren't inherently bad other than downplaying the timers and shrines etc. of Godus. Beside every realtime game has to track time, that is vastly different from the timers currently present in Godus, comparing them doesn't make much sense at all in my opinion. Though I admit that might not been your intention. Though judging by the answers to that posts I quoted I'm not the only that thought that this was your intention. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a time where I've defended the timers as they're currently present within Godus on PC as a good idea for the PC community. The closest I said was that I hadn't run into problems with timers in my own playthrough, but I also said that the wishes of the community supercede my own. The existing resource gathering mechanic is to dig up chests that are randomly placed over the map, do minigames and click pink bubbles. I was asked to provide some parameters through which the community could provide feedback that would be most likely to be implemented. So, I gathered that info together and shared it with the community. Even so, this comment is merely yet another complaint - it's not even an argument or a point for debate. And I'm highly aware of the complaint. What is repeating it in this context going to do other than simply aggravate me? With this specific post, it is like you're looking to get a rise out of me and nothing more.
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Post by rubgish on Jul 1, 2014 21:03:56 GMT
Just quickly worth pointing out, that timers in games like SC2 don't always refer to building times (though they are a thing), it can also refer to some of the campaign modes such as "survive for X minutes" or "gather XXXX minerals" or things like that, which are timer based.
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Casinha
Master
Posts: 217
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by Casinha on Jul 1, 2014 21:46:51 GMT
Lastly, I find it a bit demoralizing that some of you seem so vehemently convinced that because George and I work on the community team that we, surely, must be marketing goons with no souls whose only function is being a mouthpiece for some corporate mastermind. Perhaps this is me being a tad too forward but I don't think you realize that, in many ways, George and I are some of your biggest supporters. We're in your corner more than you may realize. Granted, it's a two way street of meeting the needs of the game while meeting the needs of the community and we try to make these two things mesh as much as we can (and without the influence of any of our own opinions, bias or otherwise). We're gamers, just like you. Hell, take a look at my Steam profile. I love games. And I, just like many of you, have my own opinions on what is and isn't a good game. So when I share that opinion, whether it's about another game or the one we're working on, I am truly being genuine. I personally feel that someone in my position should never support or espouse a game in which they do not personally believe in. So if I talk positively about the game then that's because I genuinely like something about it. There are countless opportunities for community work in this industry, which is to say that I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to be. Well, you know what, initially I did honestly think that both yourself and monkeythumbz were simply mouthpieces for the corporate mastermind. Before being disheartened, please note the "did" in that sentence. My initial thoughts were "here come tweedle dum and tweedle dee to speak in riddles and rhymes and lead my Alice on a merry chase". I believe it began (channelling grandpa here) when the thread appeared on the 22cans forum asking for ideas for Godus' story. As someone who not only loves to write (badly, I grant you) but also hopes to some day design and develop games that might one day be considered even a pimple on the bum of Peter Molyneux's giants, I immediately decided to get in on this action. I replied to the thread (with a pretty vague post as I wanted to see where the thread would lead before I said anything solid) and twittered the guy whose name I cannot remember. I don't seem to be able to find his twitter account now that I've logged in and blown away the dust and the cobwebs, maybe he was overwhelmed by the fans. Anyway, the thread quickly flooded with eager beavers and nothing happened. And nothing happened. And nothing continued to happen. I was disappointed, to say the least. However I noticed that that thread became an adequate analog to the trend of backers' feelings, like some sort of ski slope with a few random upward jumps but mostly rapid downhill acceleration. After that, I think I refused to concede that anything positive could come out of Godus. I had tried the alpha and it was boring, I had attempted to engage the team when they asked for ideas, but from what I could tell the entire thread was pointless. I had waited for a sign of change, but more and more information regarding the mobile version was all I could find. I think it is human nature to let the negative overshadow the positive and that's bang on what I did. I also think that's what a lot of people that once loved Godus and what it promised to become have done (to my fellow forumites reading this, I do not mean to project my own feelings upon you, but I expect that is what I am doing, sorry). I put £100 into this project in a show of good faith and was given a mobile product that I couldn't even run on my own smartphone (I have a Windows Phone). Other backers have contributed significantly more money and gotten just as much back. I had, in all honesty, given up on Godus. I thought it a lost cause, £100 misspent on a money-hungry shill a shell of his former self. You, both of you, have changed that for me. Yes, the game is still boring. No, nothing has come of the thread inquiring about ideas for the story. Yes, focus is on the mobile version. As it stands, do I think that Godus is worth the money I put into it? Absolutely not. Thanks to you, do I now have a glimmer of hope that one day I will be able to stand up and say that my faith in Peter Molyneux and all the folks at 22 Cans was well placed? Absolutely. Both of you have worked hard and fought vigorously to sift through the crap and come out with what I think is a good reflection of our wants and desires as Godus backers. It is not only this that gives me hope for Godus, because anyone can work hard and good con-men all the harder. What compounds with your hard work and post-office hours efforts is the fact that you're being paid to do it. Someone in 22 Cans (and I'm going to hope it's Peter) believes that our opinions and questions are worth thousands upon thousands of pounds a year. Were the answers the team gave satisfying? Not really, but at least they're answers and we wouldn't have gotten them without you. Once the PC sprint comes into play I have no doubt that both of you will be working doubly hard to make our voices heard. I am not a man for forums. There is little in the world I care about enough that would be covered by a collection of random anons from around the globe. However when I read you post and saw that you were disheartened I took a step back and realised that I was actually dismayed by the fact that we as fans that ought to be wishing the best for the product we had invested in and the staff creating it were driving away the only people that connected us all. Does the climber hack at the rope that keeps him hanging from that mountain that seems unforgiving and insurmountable? Fuck no! That would be madness. He trusts that rope, lets it go slack as he climbs and pulls himself over the top of that damn mountain to see the sun setting in all its glory, the tree canopy a misty memory below. This is how I want you to feel when Godus is complete and if anything it's how I want to feel. Don't become disheartened at our response. It will only serve to fray the rope that keeps us clinging to that mountain. Much in the same way that you need to remind me that the current focus is on mobile not PC, I feel I ought to remind you that my interest is in the PC not the mobile. The only reason I would ever care about the progress of the mobile version of the game would be due to the mobile sprint being that much closer to completion in order for the PC sprint to start. You could bring every single question I have to the heads of 22 Cans (and I honestly think you would if you could), but I would not be satisfied until the PC version was in focus, it is simply where my interests lie and in no way indicative of how I feel about both you and monkeythumbz. tl;dr Buck up. You're doing a good job, guys, keep it up and you'll see how much we really love you when pc development comes about. Now, after having vomited up a collection of warm, fuzzy words that I would not normally be saying, I'm returning to my cave to lurk around the forums. Venturing out once in a blue moon to deliver a badly-timed pun. Oh, while I'm spewing rainbows and sunshine I feel I should thank Lord Ba'al for providing this forum, which I feel has given both the backers and the staff a place to express their true feelings. Know that this forum has increased my forum posts by at least 50-fold and is also the reason that I am able have hope for Godus. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jul 1, 2014 21:52:46 GMT
Oh, while I'm spewing rainbows and sunshine I feel I should thank Lord Ba'al for providing this forum, which I feel has given both the backers and the staff a place to express their true feelings. Know that this forum has increased my forum posts by at least 50-fold and is also the reason that I am able have hope for Godus. Hear, hear. If I'd backed at £100 and wasn't here every day actually seeing the team hard at work and hearing ideas tossed around, I'd be feeling mightily aggrieved too. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 2, 2014 0:05:23 GMT
As someone who not only loves to write (badly, I grant you) but also hopes to some day design and develop games that might one day be considered even a pimple on the bum of Peter Molyneux's giants, I immediately decided to get in on this action. ... Does the climber hack at the rope that keeps him hanging from that mountain that seems unforgiving and insurmountable? Fuck no! That would be madness. He trusts that rope, lets it go slack as he climbs and pulls himself over the top of that damn mountain to see the sun setting in all its glory, the tree canopy a misty memory below. Not bad writing. Oh, while I'm spewing rainbows and sunshine I feel I should thank Lord Ba'al for providing this forum, which I feel has given both the backers and the staff a place to express their true feelings. Know that this forum has increased my forum posts by at least 50-fold and is also the reason that I am able have hope for Godus. Thanks and you're most welcome. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 0:21:13 GMT
Oh, while I'm spewing rainbows and sunshine I feel I should thank Lord Ba'al for providing this forum, which I feel has given both the backers and the staff a place to express their true feelings. Know that this forum has increased my forum posts by at least 50-fold and is also the reason that I am able have hope for Godus. Thanks and you're most welcome. Agreed. Thank you Mr. Lord Ba'al. It's well known that the Steam forums aren't quite the best place for speaking one's honest opinion. Especially when there are thin-skinned, heavy-handed, egotistical, brokenly biased Mods lurking about banning your face for showing a bit of emotion (I don't include Matt'thuhlu or G.K. in that statement btw. Matthew says he's an ego maniac.. i think its the goatee talking). On the other hand I very much enjoy that the majority of the communication from the negative nancies seem to be much more constructive than most of the dredged out sinkholes of the internet. This forum has been a hint of fresh aire for me and I'm glad there's a place where civilised people can come together in disagreement and still have a spot of fun with each other. |
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Post by hardly on Jul 2, 2014 5:20:31 GMT
I think its a fine line between us recognising that Matt/George can't say anything bad about GODUS (I know I wouldn't be on here trashing my own company's products and services) and accusing them of being brainless corporate shrills. I recognise you guys are independent of 22cans and also limited in your control/responsibility for the game. You can take our feedback to them and bring their feedback to us but that can never guarantee a result. I've said it before, the only thing I ask for is honesty in private at the 22cans office about the state of the game. In terms of the other mods I think they need to be very careful not to be cheerleaders. Muir had a bad habit a while back of fact checking posts based on his own rose tinted outlook and banning/correcting posts he considered untrue based on his own very limited information pool.
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on Jul 2, 2014 7:59:22 GMT
I feel I ought to repeat the first part of that sentence, where I said - and allow me to put it in bold - I understand and recognise the concerns you've raised about Godus on PC leveraging F2P mechanics and the assertion that this makes the PC game play too much like a freemium mobile game. So no, I hadn't missed the point. In fact, I referenced it in my reply. Even so, that reply was in the ongoing context of accusations of fraudulent activity or breaches of consumer-protection regulations. It was this thread: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/3/540744935976596407/In that thread you said that 22cans haven't had a shop in PC-Godus which is wrong, it had. Muir said our memory in regard to that shop was wrong but that wasn't true either, it's easy to find interviews in which Peter openly talked about thinking to fully implement the shop in the PC version, in some of them he even talked about thinking to re-implement it after 22cans freshly removed it. I can't find any discussion about breaching consumer protection regulations or legal accusations at that point in the thread. I read that paragraph as "I respect your feedback, but your technically wrong". That "your technically wrong" part is just unnecessary imho. I see it as misunderstanding the point in so far as that it doesn't matter if Godus technically isn't free 2 play since no one wanted to argue that Godus is technically a F2P game but instead still plays and feels like a F2P game. By that logic the time it takes you to reload in a shooter is also a "timer". Absolutely everything in a realtime game could be seen as a "timer". I don't think that there is much sense in comparing something that just takes a bit of time or happens in the background and can be speed up with timers that directly hinder you at progression, take multiple days and can be sped up with a meta currency. If your desired implication was that godus will have timers comparable to Sim City it wasn't really obvious in my opinion, afterwards ensued a discussion about how Godus timers can't be compared to Civilization and Sim City and I wasn't the only one participating in that discussion. Its a loophole that is embedded in technical terms. In this context I see it as saying something unpleasant in a purposefully technical way which is deceptive. So is trying to get any information or confirmation of your company. There tends to be a focus on unnecessary technicalities, being vague, promising to think about something at a later point of development even though its a question that had been asked a year ago, loopholes or statements that are potentially deniable, inconsistent statements (PC godus is very important for us and we'll focus on PC first - mobile release is the real journey of Godus), feel-good-spins and marketing spin and mis-state the past. Blatant lies (design documents, stating that you won't be able to spend more than 20$ on the F2P version or that your followers would get upset with you if you spent more than that...), making arguments without further detailing them (entire focus on PC version for the first year - why are PC and F2P identical than? Iterative design - why aren't the more examples for that design process than removing totems?). Meanwhile the head of your company is claiming that Godus is the first and only ethical F2P game that doesn't abuse mechanics that are supposed to cause "addiction" or the first game that is appealing to a broader audience. It's all lies, lies, lies along with lack of information and repeating the same promises again and again. If you two tell us one thing and the head of your company goes out and states the complete opposite, it does appear like you are just comforting us.I'm sorry if I lack neutrality towards you and matthew and can't stop seeing any statement and promise on itself but always try to find out how it might be a loophole or vague enough to be denied by 22cans, since that happened quite a few times. Or seeing any arguing as a way to downplay the reality and cheerleading. Because that also happened quite a few times. Matthew wrote hundreds of post where he stated that he forwarded our feedback and discussed it internally with the team, and still he had to make a thread were he collected our ideas recently. I can't take it serious if you guys still collect feedback and forward or have to ask us how we think resource management should work - do we really need to explain how resource management usually works in RTS? And I can't believe that you guys can freely talk about Godus because I have a hard time to believe that not seeing collecting belief as a unnecessary chore that doesn't offer any strategical choice is possible, but thats just my opinion and there isn't much sense in arguing about that since it can't be proven to be true or wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 20:42:41 GMT
I've never been banned by Muir.  Now I feel left out. 2 times warned in 2 days still unbanned i know how you feel:) |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jul 3, 2014 20:49:51 GMT
I've never been banned by Muir. Now I feel left out. 2 times warned in 2 days still unbanned i know how you feel:) FFS, it's not supposed to be some kind of competition... |
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Thanks to everyone else for chiming in as well. Always glad to see when me being forward doesn't blow up in my face, haha.
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT