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Post by hardly on Feb 23, 2016 23:53:40 GMT
It says a lot that Fraggle doesn't come over here and try that crap. The reason is that there is no game in it for him. On steam he can bait people and get them banned based on over active moderation, there is zero chance anyone being banned here so he has interest in shit stirring.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113 
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 24, 2016 0:57:03 GMT
It says a lot that Fraggle doesn't come over here and try that crap. The reason is that there is no game in it for him. On steam he can bait people and get them banned based on over active moderation, there is zero chance anyone being banned here so he has interest in shit stirring. Fragglerock is a perfect example of an Early Access schadenfreude troll - VALVe moderation documentation even specifically says something about that (as a definite reason to permaban instead of the silly ones often used by 22cans). If a developer doesn't try to get rid of those trying to cause problems by gloating at those who bought into a questionable product, they fairly well establish themselves as a problem developer who would value sycophants over any real advice or critique. As you can probably tell, that kind of developer isn't suited for Early Access. Discussion of a developer's dysfunctions around a game's development is entirely relevant and On Topic when it pertains to a game we're supposed to buy in an unfinished state and to hope that someday it might evolve beyond a tech demo. Thankfully, we do have a faster way of figuring out if a developer's selling a gold brick, and so the flagging of reviews just comes across as developer pettiness instead of actually being able to hide anything. Or again, looking as awful as possible, trying to tick off all the boxes on the Early Access Bullshit Bingo card. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 24, 2016 7:11:53 GMT
Clear troll. I like Drake's last post. (42 minutes ago) |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 7:24:24 GMT
Clear troll. I like Drake's last post. (42 minutes ago) rekt? rekt. p.s. for those who don't know, "FraggleRock Ampersand" is a smarmy derivative of the name "Benedict Cumberbatch". |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Feb 24, 2016 10:39:23 GMT
He's a weird one. Looking over his last few pages of post history, he never has any apparent interest in the games themselves. He doesn't own many of them (including Godus) and nothing about his posts suggests he has ever played them. There are no reviews, opinions, insights, feedback or engagement in discussion at all. All he does is snipe at other users. But since the other users are complaining about Godus, it does make him look like he's pretty much the entirety of the pro-Godus camp. Was he eventually banned from the regular Godus board?
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 24, 2016 11:17:42 GMT
He's a weird one. Looking over his last few pages of post history, he never has any apparent interest in the games themselves. He doesn't own many of them (including Godus) and nothing about his posts suggests he has ever played them. There are no reviews, opinions, insights, feedback or engagement in discussion at all. All he does is snipe at other users. But since the other users are complaining about Godus, it does make him look like he's pretty much the entirety of the pro-Godus camp. Was he eventually banned from the regular Godus board? A "see you tomorrow ban" is a one day ban. Colin has since conveniently locked the thread about devs tampering with the reviews. He probably wouldn't want to explain why he** was wrongly flagging reviews anyways, as he was already given ample opportunity in that thread and decided to issue some statement about Steam policy, as if 22cans have given a moment's care about that at any time...especially that taking part of the Early Access program thing (other than selling unfinished products they'll never finish). * - Being "pro-" Derek Smart has been a trolling method since the 90s on Usenet, with the end result that no publisher really wants to deal with him anymore. In that case, the outcome is a good thing. In this case, it just makes 22cans look more like Miner Wars 2081-era Keen Software House. ** - Most likely him. It could have been Simon or someone else with the Developer flag set on their Steam account. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Feb 24, 2016 12:09:36 GMT
Well, I think Colin was probably right to close the thread at this point. It had devolved, as threads with FRA always do, into people insulting each other. People shouldn't rise to the bait, but when they don't the result is that the thread doesn't get bad enough to be locked so FRA is free to continue abusing people.
I thought Colin locked that thread immediately after he posted his initial response, but it apparently got re-opened. I wonder why?
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 24, 2016 13:50:54 GMT
Well, I think Colin was probably right to close the thread at this point. It had devolved, as threads with FRA always do, into people insulting each other. People shouldn't rise to the bait, but when they don't the result is that the thread doesn't get bad enough to be locked so FRA is free to continue abusing people. I thought Colin locked that thread immediately after he posted his initial response, but it apparently got re-opened. I wonder why? I thought the same thing, but there's a likely reason why: What Aynen said in the thread I linked to explains much. I once made the mistake of asking if FRA "had played the piece of shit yet" - and having taken the bait I was banned by Aynen for "rage posting". In the thread in question, nobody replying to FRA posted anything that could be remotely used for a reason to ban, and having "changed" to Godus Wars 22cans no longer have their fake "Steam Rules" to enfarce. They could always go back to the delete/lie/ban game if they're really intending to look awful for any kind of publicity... |
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Post by Spiderweb on Feb 24, 2016 15:14:04 GMT
Wasn't the Godus forum locked down to only members who owned the game. Didn't FRA say he didn't own it once (my memory foggy)? so I'm wondering if Godus Wars is not locked down to only members who owned the game.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 25, 2016 6:35:33 GMT
Wasn't the Godus forum locked down to only members who owned the game. Didn't FRA say he didn't own it once (my memory foggy)? so I'm wondering if Godus Wars is not locked down to only members who owned the game. Nope, not locked down to just owners, and FRA doesn't have the icon to indicate ownership on Steam. |
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Post by greay on Mar 8, 2016 22:07:25 GMT
looks like 22cans has taken the title of this thread to heart and decided to just not do any PR.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Mar 9, 2016 8:08:10 GMT
looks like 22cans has taken the title of this thread to heart and decided to just not do any PR. It makes perfect sense in the context of what they're trying to achieve right now. They don't want to answer any questions or explain themselves, because they know the answers and explanations are awful. They don't want to engage with any feedback discussions because they have no intention of listening to it, and want to minimise their exposure to accusations that they've ignored it. They will try to use the rigid questionnaire they've put on the Steam boards as evidence that they've been embracing Early Access, when in reality the boards are designed to discourage feedback as far as possible. They haven't even bothered to fix the ridiculous mess of thread titles on the Units board. Objective: Crap out a functioning game ASAP so we can ditch this millstone with minimal bad press. |
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Post by greay on Mar 24, 2016 2:06:29 GMT
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Post by Crumpy Six on Mar 24, 2016 9:37:18 GMT
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Post by hardly on Mar 24, 2016 23:35:21 GMT
Perhaps the 22Cans test team no longer exists. |
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Post by militairensneuvelen on Mar 25, 2016 9:23:21 GMT
Didn't they ban most of their testers???  |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Mar 27, 2016 11:00:24 GMT
On the subject of "how not to PR", how about abandoning your corporate website, leaving it horribly out-of-date and continuing to spread outdated, inaccurate and misleading information? The "latest news" is dated June 19th 2015. They haven't even bothered reporting their own massive Godus Wars release. In the update they discuss the concept of combat taking place in a world other than Homeworld or Weyland, but "Godus Wars" as a separate game isn't mentioned at all. The "about us" page is nonsense. Probably more than half of these people are no longer employed by 22Cans. Early Access encourages potential buyers to do research into the game and use the available information to make an informed decision about whether to take the risk. By abandoning the team page, 22Cans is effectively lying about the amount of resourcing committed to the game. 22Cans' failure to communicate is the same as being willfully dishonest when they are well aware that the available information is hugely misleading. |
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Post by hardly on Mar 28, 2016 1:11:36 GMT
On the subject of "how not to PR", how about abandoning your corporate website, leaving it horribly out-of-date and continuing to spread outdated, inaccurate and misleading information? The "latest news" is dated June 19th 2015. They haven't even bothered reporting their own massive Godus Wars release. In the update they discuss the concept of combat taking place in a world other than Homeworld or Weyland, but "Godus Wars" as a separate game isn't mentioned at all. The "about us" page is nonsense. Probably more than half of these people are no longer employed by 22Cans. Early Access encourages potential buyers to do research into the game and use the available information to make an informed decision about whether to take the risk. By abandoning the team page, 22Cans is effectively lying about the amount of resourcing committed to the game. 22Cans' failure to communicate is the same as being willfully dishonest when they are well aware that the available information is hugely misleading. I've wondered many times whether leaving out of date information up that might mislead people about the nature of the development constitutes false advertising for an early access game. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Mar 29, 2016 9:29:50 GMT
On the subject of "how not to PR", how about abandoning your corporate website, leaving it horribly out-of-date and continuing to spread outdated, inaccurate and misleading information? The "latest news" is dated June 19th 2015. They haven't even bothered reporting their own massive Godus Wars release. In the update they discuss the concept of combat taking place in a world other than Homeworld or Weyland, but "Godus Wars" as a separate game isn't mentioned at all. The "about us" page is nonsense. Probably more than half of these people are no longer employed by 22Cans. Early Access encourages potential buyers to do research into the game and use the available information to make an informed decision about whether to take the risk. By abandoning the team page, 22Cans is effectively lying about the amount of resourcing committed to the game. 22Cans' failure to communicate is the same as being willfully dishonest when they are well aware that the available information is hugely misleading. I've wondered many times whether leaving out of date information up that might mislead people about the nature of the development constitutes false advertising for an early access game. I doubt it. For it to be false advertising, it would have to say "this feature is in the game." Early Access provides a super-easy loophole for this. Developers of Early Access games can say "this WILL be in the game" and sell it on that basis, but they don't actually have to deliver on those commitments. Early Access allows for developers to: - Make any promises they want about what might be in the game, and not deliver;
- Ignore player feedback (even though, per Steam's own guidance, community involvement is key to the concept);
- Change the game in a substantial way (even though Steam's typical get-out for dissatisfied Early Access customers is that they shouldn't purchase a title that they don't want to play in it's current state - this argument does not hold water when you remember that the developer can significantly change the game's 'current state' whenever they want);
- Abandon the game when they get bored of it, and not have to give refunds.
Painted in this light, the Early Access concept suddenly doesn't look so appealing to consumers. In fact it is ripe for exploitation, and 22Cans have taken full advantage of this. They aren't the only ones, but they make a very good example. As a consumer, when I naively bought Godus in 2013, I was aware that there was a degree of risk associated with Early Access. But if I had fully appreciated quite how much freedom the developers have to screw their customers over, I would never have purchased Early Access and I don't think anyone else would either. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Mar 29, 2016 15:57:11 GMT
This is why I never pre-order anymore, and very rarely buy early access games, anymore. I'm even more scrutinizing about projects I back in Crowd funding. I'm actually grateful to have learned this lesson; its made me a better consumer. I'm appreciative, and supportive, of good quality products and the companies that make them much more. It also encourages me to be a better creator.
That said, its not acceptable and the whole system needs to be torn down and restructured.
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