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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 22:49:09 GMT
Another interesting tidbit to know - if you want to see a developer be honest, look at their job openings page, as quite a few laws require honesty around that.  Archived on Mar 15 (and how it appears currently): web.archive.org/web/20150315004858/http://www.22cans.com/jobs/New features for mobile development, hmmm? "Plenty of support" while also saying "without substantial supervision" with "capable of both giving and taking direction, and functioning within a team"...when the producer doesn't even know what their team is doing on a daily basis...gosh, I can't wait to apply! Well-developed communication skills...wow, they're asking something from their new programmers that they can't even get from their own PR! |
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Post by hardly on May 14, 2015 23:22:22 GMT
Just a thought is there any guidance about when mods should use bans, e.g. do they describe it as a last resort. 22cans use it like a timeout chair except in my case timeout is a month for saying "now I know you are trolling us."
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Post by Gmr Leon on May 15, 2015 0:30:28 GMT
Given that personal attacks were the grounds for one/some of these bans, I went ahead and reported DefectedZombie on the same grounds. Tracing the conversation from their thread inquiring about the game, it's clear that while not calling out any names, they're directly insulting other users.
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 0:43:17 GMT
Given that personal attacks were the grounds for one/some of these bans, I went ahead and reported DefectedZombie on the same grounds. Tracing the conversation from their thread inquiring about the game, it's clear that while not calling out any names, they're directly insulting other users. While I appreciate the effort banning him for an equal length of time would not fix the issue. I like debating with Fraggle and him even if they are trolling, what I hate is getting censored and banned for making a fair criticism of their statements. Worse Dave has defamed me here and on Steam and made out I made some uncivilised, coordinated and bullying attack on an individual. Clearly this is not true and I want Dave to apologise publicly and on Steam to me. I'm also going to be suggesting to Valve that they intervene to put an end to the draconian tactics. |
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 0:47:38 GMT
Given that personal attacks were the grounds for one/some of these bans, I went ahead and reported DefectedZombie on the same grounds. Tracing the conversation from their thread inquiring about the game, it's clear that while not calling out any names, they're directly insulting other users. While I appreciate the effort banning him for an equal length of time would not fix the issue. I like debating with Fraggle and him even if they are trolling, what I hate is getting censored and banned for making a fair criticism of their statements. Worse Dave has defamed me here and on Steam and made out I made some uncivilised, coordinated and bullying attack on an individual. Clearly this is not true and I want Dave to apologise publicly and on Steam to me. I'm also going to be suggesting to Valve that they intervene to put an end to the draconian tactics. Oh and the defamation element is worse by the way because he deleted the supposed "offending post" leaving people solely reliant on his description and their imagination as to what I wrote. So he effectively removed any chance at natural justice I might have through people forming their own opinions. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 0:57:48 GMT
Oh and the defamation element is worse by the way because he deleted the supposed "offending post" leaving people solely reliant on his description and their imagination as to what I wrote. So he effectively removed any chance at natural justice I might have through people forming their own opinions. From how they couldn't even quote the right post in their ban notice to me, the claim of intentional cover-up on top of the libel appears to be evidenced well. |
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 1:10:46 GMT
Oh and the defamation element is worse by the way because he deleted the supposed "offending post" leaving people solely reliant on his description and their imagination as to what I wrote. So he effectively removed any chance at natural justice I might have through people forming their own opinions. From how they couldn't even quote the right post in their ban notice to me, the claim of intentional cover-up on top of the libel appears to be evidenced well. At least you got a quote  they couldn't quote me except to note I called someone a troll which is loosely true but at the same time inaccurate. I declared someone's activity "trolling". When you think about it with 22cans justice a moderator could go into any discussion, delete three posts, claim someone was a bully and acted in a culturally unacceptable way (as they did in this case) and who could prove them wrong? Deleting evidence is very convienent for people acting as judge, jury and executioner. Imagine if at your trial the prosecution declared you guilty and then advised they had in their posession overhelming evidence of your guilt but that it had been deleted before anyone else could see it because the very evidence itself was an offence. Another bizarre point is I can't remember the last time I had a warning but not in this thread and not in several months that I can recall. Except in my ban notice they claim I've been warned repeatedly. Again prove it, when was the last warning? If warning is what they do why not just PM me last night with a warning. You know why? Because I wasn't bullying anyone last night. I'd posted a friendly message and then gone to sleep. I was not engaging in the malicious activity they accused me of, I was doing other things! But they had to act right then without talking to me. After all I'd posted two messages in about 24 hours (one of which while holding my cock and going for a piss, hence the brevity) directed at this guy who must have posted 10 long diatribes in the same time. They must have been terrified, what if I woke up from my sleep this morning and continued the onslaught. No, this cannot happen, they had to act, they pre-emptively banned me for a month and now the forum is safe. Thank god for the moderators. |
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 1:29:42 GMT
Here's a thought, if it's harmful to accuse someone of trolling, then how come the moderators can declare someone's behaviour trolling? After all if I harmed this poor individual by saying "now I know you are trolling us" then how are we supposed to live with the shame of similar accusations from mods.
In fact now I think about it doesn't the same principle apply to me, have I not been publicly bullied by being called a bully with no evidence, no opportunity to defend myself, no right of reply. If you analyse it objective what has been done to me is there very thing they accused me of doing to somebody else. And they have power, who is the worst bully the person operating on the same level or the one with special privileges. I didn't delete anybody's post and create a false and defamatory narrative, but they did. I have it now they are in breach of their own rules. They must ban themselves for justice to stand.
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Post by mindless on May 15, 2015 2:04:44 GMT
In a previous post inside this thread I made the following postYour not the only one that wished him well, I did so as well, I said something along the lines of, "Your one of the lucky ones, that came into this game with no preconceptions, if you can find enjoyment in this game then more power to you, but for those of us who have been here longer we have a history of disappointment to deal with" at which point I go off and gather together a number of links to the various news articles showing the media shit storm to help bring him upto speed. I'm 100% sure that posting the links to those articles was the real reason that I got perma-banned, because its airing their dirty laundry out in the open, and they obviously would prefer no one ever knowing anything about the controversy surrounding this game. You might want to ask Mandrake if he can find your posts, as he was able to find some of mine in his archives to help clear my name after the lies that mrdrpink (Dave) was trying to spread. Thanks once again to mandrake who was able to find my deleted post inside his archives, here is what I actually posted, which not only goes to show that I never insult the guy, but that I was always calm, collected and quite respectful towards him inside all of the posts that I made inside his thread. Just goes to show how large of a slanderous lie it was that the 22 cans moderators were trying to push onto us.  ( I have gone back and appended this into my previous post to help strengthen my case against the liable that was levelled against me, this now represents the full amount of posts which I made into the thread, and clearly disproves all of the false claims that mrdrpink (Dave) tried to make against me)
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Post by Qetesh on May 15, 2015 2:04:46 GMT
I have to say with phrases like.... "Enough" and "No More" they are clearly banning with personal emotions. Unprofessional and childish partial sentences to get their last digs in, is downright embarrassing to read.
It sounds like something you would say to your child, not something an impartial professional would, when doing their job.
I also think they just want to kill it, so if you do not drink the koolaide, you are going to get kicked out of the sandbox.
It is also beyond suspicious to go and delete a bunch of posts after the fact. I can't believe 22cans is still shafting the hand that fed them. I have half a mind to forward this thread to RPS myself and see if they are interested in a follow story with screen shots for proof that CANNOT be deleted or censored by 22cans.
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Post by mindless on May 15, 2015 2:23:10 GMT
I can't actually see the steam moderation message on my phone but this comes up when I log into godus forums: You have been banned from all Godus discussions until 13 Jun @ 9:40pm. You have been banned by a forum moderator. Reason: "direct personal attacks on another person (i.e. calling them a troll) despite being warned about this several times in the past " I'm not actually permabanned. I'd like to see their records of "several times in the past." So how come I get a full on permanent ban when I've never received either a temp ban, or any kind of warning from the moderators in the past and have all of my post history deleted ( in a blatant attempt to prevent me from proving my case), Where I was literally agreeing with the original poster, the meaning of my posts can in no way be twisted to fit this bullying narrative, while you receive a temp ban for this? (and I believe you have received temp bans previously). They really had it in for me didn't they! They are not even attempting to be consistent or fair in how they choose to level out their punishments. |
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 2:26:27 GMT
I can't actually see the steam moderation message on my phone but this comes up when I log into godus forums: You have been banned from all Godus discussions until 13 Jun @ 9:40pm. You have been banned by a forum moderator. Reason: "direct personal attacks on another person (i.e. calling them a troll) despite being warned about this several times in the past " I'm not actually permabanned. I'd like to see their records of "several times in the past." So how come I get a full on permanent ban when I've never received either a temp ban, or any kind of warning from the moderators in the past and have all of my post history deleted, for me litteraly agreeing with the original poster, while you recieve a temp ban for this? They really had it in for me didn't they! They are not even attempting to be consistent or fair in how they choose to level out their punishments. Both bans are ridiculous. I can only assume you pissed them off more in your other posts. I still don't understand what your infringement was. I got banned for saying "now I'm sure you are trolling us". What were your offensive words? Did they quote anything in the ban notice? |
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 2:36:57 GMT
I have to say with phrases like.... "Enough" and "No More" they are clearly banning with personal emotions. Unprofessional and childish partial sentences to get their last digs in, is downright embarrassing to read. It sounds like something you would say to your child, not something an impartial professional would, when doing their job. I also think they just want to kill it, so if you do not drink the koolaide, you are going to get kicked out of the sandbox. It is also beyond suspicious to go and delete a bunch of posts after the fact. I can't believe 22cans is still shafting the hand that fed them. I have half a mind to forward this thread to RPS myself and see if they are interested in a follow story with screen shots for proof that CANNOT be deleted or censored by 22cans. You are right about the "Enough" Qestesh. It's really weird to write that as a complete sentence and whichever of the three mods did it reveals something about their mindset. It strikes me as a facist crushing of descent mindset. I don't think it's Dave as its too immature for an adult to write like that. Oh and it shows they did this is anger. It's also interesting that coincidentally 4 people who were active in that thread all commited misdeeds worthy of being banned in the same 24 hour period. It's not plausible that we all genuinely misbehaved simultaneously. What I think happened is they got angry and lashed out. |
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Post by mindless on May 15, 2015 2:43:15 GMT
Both bans are ridiculous. I can only assume you pissed them off more in your other posts. I still don't understand what your infringement was. I got banned for saying "now I'm sure you are trolling us". What were your offensive words? Did they quote anything in the ban notice? The original poster had made a statement that it was possible to skip the boring tutorials, through the exploitation of a glitch that he had discovered in the game, and he had gone to the effort of uploading a youtube video to demonstrate how to use the exploit to bypass the tutorial part of the early game. The post which I got banned for was me actually agreeing with him that his use of the glitch can be used to make the game more interesting by skipping out the boring parts. But somehow, and I really have no idea how, the moderators felt this post of mine was somehow bullying and/or insulting towards the guy, and was the direct cause of me being erased from the history of the Godus forums, and life long banned  Here is the ban message I received from the moderators Would love for someone to explain how this is in any way a ban worthy post?
Allow me to pick apart all of their reasons here Baiting: None to speak of Intentionally disagreeing with others to cause an argument:I was not disagreeing, I was actually agreeing with the original poster And criticising others for having an opinion you disagree with:I wasn't criticising him, not only was i agreeing with him, but he outright asked us for our reasons why we do not appreciate the game, and just assumed that we were only using the mobile version of the game to gauge its performance, we were offering information to him about our position, and the reasons why the game is not enjoyable to us. This is not me criticising his position, it is only my informing him of my own personal opinion, I never said that he was wrong to hold his position, in fact I explicitly posted that its fine for him to believe the game is OK, but that there are still valid reasons why others would still find the game lacking even though he does not. For you to twist the meaning in the way you have is absolutely disgraceful.
You've been warned about this several times. Enough:Never once has a moderator contacted me with any warning, Nor have I ever received even so much as a temp ban in my entire time on the godus forums. This is an outright lie! As hardly has requested, I also expect a full apology from the 22 cans moderators, and reinstatement of all my posts on the forum so that I can further clear my name. I shall not tolerate my good character to be brought into disrepute by a group of liars |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 2:57:31 GMT
When approached through a mutual contact in regards to that topic, DefectedZombie unfriended the contact without explanation or even a word.
I believe that any association they have with Dissenter's Anonymous will be ceased shortly.
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 3:08:16 GMT
Did anyone ever watch any of his you tube videos? The funny thing is I was going to if I got time. There really was no bad blood here, that is what makes the whole thing so ridiculous.
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 3:31:38 GMT
Ba'al/Qetesh can I please ask that you split this thread from page six where Mandrake announces he had been banned into a new thread called "mass banning the community" or something similar you think is appropriate. I think we should split the recent events from the ongoing discussion about 22cans appalling PR management.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 3:32:31 GMT
I have to say with phrases like.... "Enough" and "No More" they are clearly banning with personal emotions. Unprofessional and childish partial sentences to get their last digs in, is downright embarrassing to read. It sounds like something you would say to your child, not something an impartial professional would, when doing their job. I also think they just want to kill it, so if you do not drink the koolaide, you are going to get kicked out of the sandbox. It is also beyond suspicious to go and delete a bunch of posts after the fact. I can't believe 22cans is still shafting the hand that fed them. I have half a mind to forward this thread to RPS myself and see if they are interested in a follow story with screen shots for proof that CANNOT be deleted or censored by 22cans. Inventing a history of "we've had to deal with this person for sooooo muuuuch that we have no choice to do this" is a common crappy PR tactic, and one that 22cans just got pantsed on when they tried to use it. Speaking of RPS, this thread along with the collection I've posted in another thread will definitely be noticed by them if they decide to come around again, but contacting them yourself will put a bit more impetus to it. I also have some more details, including archived copies of the "bullying" defamation that RPS might want as well: (The number isn't indicative of the number of posts in a topic, but how many archival copies exist.) 22cans: 9 Banning the community: 34 Combat for PC: 16 Daily Dev Activity - 5th May 2015: 4 Communications blackout: 3 Disappointed: 8 If this is early access... : 4 I'm confused about the recent godus news.: 17 Is this game still being developed_ Havent seen any updates from it...: 11 IS this game still being worked on_ Worth a buy: 39 Leaving early access: 18 More posts deleted and more threads locked.: 7 No more daily dev activity updates: 2 Oh god, where has this game gone: 2 Pricing: 12 Question to Devs regarding in-game resources: 2 Roadmap for May: 4 Seriously, so much needless hate.: 5 should i buy this game: 4 So, now you're locking threads for no reason: 3 The secret thing: 12 Thinking about buying some games this weekend, should this be one of them: 4 This weeks Comms blackout: 3 What do_did you like about Godus gameplay from any version.: 5 What happened to this game: 5 Whats the diffrence between the mobile version and PC version: 6 Why are the Dev Logs hidden away in a subforum that has nothing to do with game dev: 2 Why did the daily dev updates stop: 9 Why do we only get vague answers Why is this game so expensive: 8 (Not a complete list.) The sad thing for 22cans is that they didn't hit absolute nothing but liabilities like Keen Software House did, with no previous industry reputation to use while they shoveled out Miner Wars 2081. That mistake cost KSH big, and furthermore their reaction to previous fans on the Space Engineers forum damn near killed the title before it could get far. They did some of the same mistakes as 22cans, by hiding company/development discussion under "Off Topic" but then had to live with the forum split after that. What they did do was relax and own up to their mistakes, which folks could forgive, and in turn it has helped word-of-mouth. So unless 22cans tries to make an effort to repair anything - especially do anything to fulfill their company's apparent purpose and to make a point of either RSI simulators they have released so far (a God of Gods) - 'The Trail' will be complete "F*** OFF!" material. There WILL be no more evocative "dreaming" news items - it will simply be the ongoing downward spiral of a washed-up old has-been who is using his previous reputation to shovel a bunch of crap while the press laughs at the now-obvious insanity of what they're expected to print for him, with undertones of pity for the abuse and exploitation of the naive kids under his guidance. The press will indeed be saying "Enough" and "No More". |
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Post by Qetesh on May 15, 2015 3:44:38 GMT
It is super late here, but one of us will take a look at the thread tomorrow.
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 3:49:57 GMT
It is super late here, but one of us will take a look at the thread tomorrow. Thanks. No rush. |
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they couldn't quote me except to note I called someone a troll which is loosely true but at the same time inaccurate. I declared someone's activity "trolling". When you think about it with 22cans justice a moderator could go into any discussion, delete three posts, claim someone was a bully and acted in a culturally unacceptable way (as they did in this case) and who could prove them wrong? Deleting evidence is very convienent for people acting as judge, jury and executioner. Imagine if at your trial the prosecution declared you guilty and then advised they had in their posession overhelming evidence of your guilt but that it had been deleted before anyone else could see it because the very evidence itself was an offence.
