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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 17:45:06 GMT
I really wish we could stop shitting on every scrap of information and focus more on the positive elements of them. I was just about to say something similar - that's why I mostly refrain from commenting these days; I don't have anything very positive or constructive to say at this point. I do appreciate the updates, to be sure, and they are interesting to read. It's nice to see some sort of "progress" even it it's not significant. Though I am long since burned out on this combat thing. If they had put this much time into the initial design, or even the timeline or settlements, imagine where we would be today. We certainly would likely be less crass about it all. Lets hope whatever comes after combat gets at least just as much attention. I think the issue here is that the community has offered positive, constructive, realistic feedback on the Combat updates, and it has been ignored in lieu of "Upvotes are feedback and upvotes are good." This becomes even more of a problem when you read that 22Cans quote from the other day about ignoring most community feedback on Godus. Real combat, not minigames for mobile content packs, was a feature fully present in Populus: The Beginning and Black & White 2, which were supposedly the primary influences on this game, and also present in the Kickstarter video with which this game was sold. The current iteration of Combat we are being presented with is a hollow regression from games released almost twenty years ago and prior versions of this same game. |
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Post by Danjal on Jul 24, 2015 17:50:46 GMT
Well hopefully the code used to be able to add the mustering fields will be able to be used to add other structures and functionality to settlements. Like personally I would love if they did away with the current farm and mine settlements and just have farms and mines that could be added to a settlement like the mustering field. Providing a baseline and using that basis for future concepts? Why, thats a MARVELOUS idea... If only someone had thought of it before... Oh, wait... Its been suggested about a thousand times ever since Godus was funded and been ignored in favor for mobile monetization and other clickfest methods. Why put in the effort and build a solid foundation if you can simply slap bandaids all over it. =/ I'm starting to believe that the whole "keeping your feet down" has become a matter of principle to some of the key shotcallers at 22cans. "No no, we can't do that... They suggested that already! - Yes I know its a good idea. But we can't start listening to those suggestions now, then we'd just be giving in to their demands and who knows where that will lead! - Yes I know the current game is broken... We're working on it, we just haven't figured out a way to monetize the bandaid." The fact that after all this time - the same patterns persist and the same issues remain should say enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 17:51:07 GMT
I really wish we could stop shitting on every scrap of information and focus more on the positive elements of them. I would love to as well, soon as I spot any. Discussion within this "sprint" seems ultimately pointless because there's really nothing to give feedback upon; the text equivalent of one of Peter's videos and looking more like 22cans spent more on creative writing than developing the game. Those upon the mountain are represented by the occasional tablet carving carried down to the masses every so often and unless it's on the tablet it seems like company policy to be forbidden to really be spoken about. There is no discussion with 22cans about much of anything outside of Combat, and so...yay, another building made? Took how long? Edit: I do find something to say something "positive" about - they did communicate how they tried something and made a mistake, of accidentally replicating the builder's search algorithms a bit, and how they've corrected from that mistake. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 19:37:57 GMT
Here's some more feedback for how things are going on, and how it's been...a little worrying. Since the developers have been sequestered away, presumably to contain any more "information leaks" or for supposedly being able to "focus" on development, feedback has needed to go through a PR filter - not a community manager. A community manager is one who is quite familiar with both the company and product and may use that knowledge to better direct forum discussions. Generally, developers aren't so hidden from public except for when they're put again on window display. A PR filter/gofer relays anything of immediate concern and of general interest with a lot of it as copy+paste work. colin22cans appears to not know much about the game, or the state of the game, to suggest that numerical votes are somehow meaningful in context to the feedback given all over and at length. Again, I'm leaning on that Colin just wasn't that familiar with the situation/material. This is backed by a lot of other basic discussions directed at 22cans, especially those involving future design of the game, remain completely untouched. So with that in mind - would someone at 22cans tell us what "feedback" is acceptable, of particular note for these updates, aside from jumping up and down on a vote button? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 20:50:12 GMT
I was just about to say something similar - that's why I mostly refrain from commenting these days; I don't have anything very positive or constructive to say at this point. I do appreciate the updates, to be sure, and they are interesting to read. It's nice to see some sort of "progress" even it it's not significant. Though I am long since burned out on this combat thing. If they had put this much time into the initial design, or even the timeline or settlements, imagine where we would be today. We certainly would likely be less crass about it all. Lets hope whatever comes after combat gets at least just as much attention. 13th, that IS a positive and constructive thing to say. Telling them (or us mods, for that matter) when they do something right is quite possibly even more important than telling them what they do wrong. Can't have much of a sense of direction otherwise. So I'm glad you still chose to chime in, in spite of being burned out about the whole thing. Thanks! Uh...when people make suggestions, describe problems and offer remedies - how is that not constructive? So how are WE to feel when our constructive feedback is most often ignored in lieu of banhammers, libel, etc. when we discuss the problems that need to be resolved, such as suggesting that the "reboot" of 22cans not keep the Kickstarter page a complete wasteland? /posts/1069344 Forgotten. Positive and Constructive Suggestion: 22cans should remember them sometime Then many of them might be a little less irate. You know, what was suggested as a solution for the problem of people giving so much ire on the Steam forums, right? Lets not forget the time of deletions and lies upon the Steam forums as well, and how it has improved...well, no, not really. Communication has been better at earlier times upon there. It would be better if the developers were able to discuss with the community, as they were able to in the past. (This has been brought up before many times.) So why is THAT bit of constructive feedback - paramount to all other constructive feedback potential - strangled through a PR funnel? (Positive and Constructive Suggestion: Answering community concerns even on Steam vs. dodging them is a good thing.) And it's not because of my tone, because I have seen these problems being brought up...well, everywhere, including upon wherever articles are posted, about what went wrong, and even in response to the Twitter posts. A lot of burned faithful, but even some helpful suggestions. So that would suggest that generally only times 22cans seems to do anything is when they are caught dead to rights/holding the bag, and I hope sometime in the future that could be proven to not be so. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jul 24, 2015 21:05:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:08:49 GMT
I was just about to say something similar - that's why I mostly refrain from commenting these days; I don't have anything very positive or constructive to say at this point. I do appreciate the updates, to be sure, and they are interesting to read. It's nice to see some sort of "progress" even it it's not significant. Though I am long since burned out on this combat thing. If they had put this much time into the initial design, or even the timeline or settlements, imagine where we would be today. We certainly would likely be less crass about it all. Lets hope whatever comes after combat gets at least just as much attention. 13th, that IS a positive and constructive thing to say. Telling them (or us mods, for that matter) when they do something right is quite possibly even more important than telling them what they do wrong. Can't have much of a sense of direction otherwise. So I'm glad you still chose to chime in, in spite of being burned out about the whole thing. Thanks! There is something to be said for the idea that when the only feedback taken is across-the-board approval of existing plans by sockpuppet upvotes, then "feedback" becomes nothing more than a buzzword for PR. I mean, what's this supposed to be, a friendly acknowledgement of constructive criticism? 13thGeneral I think the phrase "tiling at windmills" applies here. |
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Post by Aynen on Jul 24, 2015 21:27:22 GMT
13th, that IS a positive and constructive thing to say. Telling them (or us mods, for that matter) when they do something right is quite possibly even more important than telling them what they do wrong. Can't have much of a sense of direction otherwise. So I'm glad you still chose to chime in, in spite of being burned out about the whole thing. Thanks! There is something to be said for the idea that when the only feedback taken is across-the-board approval of existing plans by sockpuppet upvotes, then "feedback" becomes nothing more than a buzzword for PR. I mean, what's this supposed to be, a friendly acknowledgement of constructive criticism? 13thGeneral I think the phrase "tiling at windmills" applies here. Well, 13th wasn't exactly showing across-the-board approval in his post. Far from it. But it wasn't across-the-board negative either. It's not like there's no room for negativity. But all negativity all the time makes Jack a dull boy. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:42:34 GMT
There is something to be said for the idea that when the only feedback taken is across-the-board approval of existing plans by sockpuppet upvotes, then "feedback" becomes nothing more than a buzzword for PR. I mean, what's this supposed to be, a friendly acknowledgement of constructive criticism? 13thGeneral I think the phrase "tiling at windmills" applies here. Well, 13th wasn't exactly showing across-the-board approval in his post. Far from it. But it wasn't across-the-board negative either. It's not like there's no room for negativity. But all negativity all the time makes Jack a dull boy. Oh, I wasn't referring to his post. I was referring to this and this, and of course Simon's lovely observation from the other day that almost all community feedback would be ignored, with the exception of "positive feedback" akin to the posts linked to above. You see, Aynen, I would love it if you and the rest of 22Cans would engage with the community in good faith. That begins with telling the truth to the players on the forums, not just developers at conferences. |
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 24, 2015 21:58:30 GMT
I feel that it should be possible to discuss a specific topic without throwing in all the bagage of the past at every occasion. We are all aware of the rather significant amount of bagage, including everyone at 22cans. The amount could not be contained by the largest vessel on the seas. Bringing it up hurts the discussion of the topic at hand and by extension the interactivity between the community and the studio. Furthermore it hurts the forum because of several reasons. It likely impacts negatively on the relationship between us and 22cans. This leads to a decreased willingness on the part of 22cans to interact with us. Existing members grow tired of posting because it's always the same old crap. Potential new members don't join because they are not interested in the same old crap. Some new members join only because they want to pile on the heap of same old crap but will likely not post again afterwards. All further hurting the symbiotic relationship. It seems we're in a downward spiral and I would like to break away from that. All of this I say for the benefit of the community.
That said, this forum exists because of the need for truth, openness and honesty. Negative opinions are very much a part of our existence, they are in fact at the core of our origin. But I think they need to be contained in the topics where they are actually applicable.
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Post by Aynen on Jul 24, 2015 22:00:02 GMT
Well, 13th wasn't exactly showing across-the-board approval in his post. Far from it. But it wasn't across-the-board negative either. It's not like there's no room for negativity. But all negativity all the time makes Jack a dull boy. Oh, I wasn't referring to his post. I was referring to this and this, and of course Simon's lovely observation from the other day that almost all community feedback would be ignored, with the exception of "positive feedback" akin to the posts linked to above. You see, Aynen, I would love it if you and the rest of 22Cans would engage with the community in good faith. That begins with telling the truth to the players on the forums, not just developers at conferences. I'm certainly not opposed to everyone being treated on good faith, I know I do most of what I do on the forums on good faith that eventually, 22Cans will find a way to make Godus work. And I don't think Simon would have accepted his position if he didn't have faith that the reputation 22Cans has can actually be restored. So there's some faith around still. That said, there's a lot of dispair also. And I find that dispair and faith/hope don't tolerate each other that well. Still, it's on good faith that I come here and discuss with you, that we might find common ground. From my perspective, if us mods and 22Cans can be told when they do something right, in tandem with what they could do better, that's a good basis for going forward. And those who have some faith left, however small, I would hope they see common ground in doing so. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 22:20:29 GMT
I feel that it should be possible to discuss a specific topic without throwing in all the bagage of the past at every occasion. We are all aware of the rather significant amount of bagage, including everyone at 22cans. The amount could not be contained by the largest vessel on the seas. Bringing it up hurts the discussion of the topic at hand and by extension the interactivity between the community and the studio. Furthermore it hurts the forum because of several reasons. It likely impacts negatively on the relationship between us and 22cans. This leads to a decreased willingness on the part of 22cans to interact with us. Existing members grow tired of posting because it's always the same old crap. Potential new members don't join because they are not interested in the same old crap. Some new members join only because they want to pile on the heap of same old crap but will likely not post again afterwards. All further hurting the symbiotic relationship. It seems we're in a downward spiral and I would like to break away from that. All of this I say for the benefit of the community. That said, this forum exists because of the need for truth, openness and honesty. Negative opinions are very much a part of our existence, they are in fact at the core of our origin. But I think they need to be contained in the topics where they are actually applicable. I can quite sympathise with the former, though when it pertains to the latter - all it seems that what 22cans WILL bother to discuss at all remains in a little corned-off fence with "Combat" written around it, where people are expected to jump up and down on vote buttons for all their feedback really seems to matter. 22cans have been getting tons of feedback, that they can't be arsed to discuss. But in context with Aynen's post - if 22cans are looking for undeserved praise then they're barking. So - for constructive criticism's sake - if 22cans doesn't want so much bleedover then they can be arsed to address the other topics where they are already being discussed before they become a recurring theme put into the context of why feedback seems to be poor. This includes the design topics that 22cans has seemingly isolated their developers from ever seeing, and in turn, there are secretive actions hidden from the community except when they are to be dangled out like a tease. Kind of like that upset customer thing - there's an easy fix right there - but almost complete silence. That in turn results in more resentment and perception that 22cans hasn't really changed anything but employees - according to an article everyone was again reminded of all the mistakes...but not really offered anything for resolution of them. You are right that the discussion can have an affect upon the relationship between community and developer, but I have to point out that it is a 2-way street and not simply the prophets proclaiming to the masses as it appears to be still handled. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 23:22:41 GMT
Oh, I wasn't referring to his post. I was referring to this and this, and of course Simon's lovely observation from the other day that almost all community feedback would be ignored, with the exception of "positive feedback" akin to the posts linked to above. You see, Aynen, I would love it if you and the rest of 22Cans would engage with the community in good faith. That begins with telling the truth to the players on the forums, not just developers at conferences. I'm certainly not opposed to everyone being treated on good faith, I know I do most of what I do on the forums on good faith that eventually, 22Cans will find a way to make Godus work. And I don't think Simon would have accepted his position if he didn't have faith that the reputation 22Cans has can actually be restored. So there's some faith around still. That said, there's a lot of dispair also. And I find that dispair and faith/hope don't tolerate each other that well. Still, it's on good faith that I come here and discuss with you, that we might find common ground. From my perspective, if us mods and 22Cans can be told when they do something right, in tandem with what they could do better, that's a good basis for going forward. And those who have some faith left, however small, I would hope they see common ground in doing so. If there is no willingness to change the way Godus is developed or the content being produced based on community feedback, then "going forward" will be the same as it always has been, a march toward another deliverance of monetized mobile content packs while 22Cans, yourself included, buy time for The Trial to finish with cries of "Wait and see". The community had overwhelmingly negative feedback to the monetized story chests "edited" by James Leach, did 22Cans ever go back and change that? Look, I get it, 22Cans considers Godus finished and is focused on creating mobile content packs for the rest of "development". Fine, business is business. But when the community asks for Combat to be a full-fledged, integrated feature like all of its decade-old inspirations instead of a mobile minigame, do you think it's unreasonable for 22Cans to out a few more developers on the game to make that happen instead of repeating "Positive feedback and community interaction are crucial to the development of Godus", as they have been doing for years? We can avoid the "baggage of the past" all we want, but at the end of the day they define the present and future of Godus' development, if Peter's speech and Simon's actions are anything to go by, and the practices that continue to create that baggage have remained firmly in place under the new CEO. The new 22Cans administration is certainly not acting in good faith when they remain unwilling to acknowledge past development problems, refuse to change the game based on community feedback, and do their best to avoid honest discussions with said community. Now it's gotten to the point where the PR manager flees from the forums when asked why he can't walk a few steps from his desk and poise a simple query to one of his coworkers. In that context, I find it rather bizarre for somebody from 22Cans to talk about how going forward will require community feedback when the CEO has explicitly said he will ignore almost all of it and no changes to content releases or development practices have been made based on anything the community has brought up. As for Simon joining 22Cans because he thinks he can restore their reputation, his past employment history makes it rather apparent that this is "just another job" for him, doubly so when you consider the insolvent state he left Gusto Games and Fairplay Media Limited in. I can understand how someone could end up working at a company like 22Cans when the last decade of their career was spent running two consecutive shovelware companies into the ground. |
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Post by morsealworth on Jul 24, 2015 23:26:52 GMT
I feel that it should be possible to discuss a specific topic without throwing in all the bagage of the past at every occasion. We are all aware of the rather significant amount of bagage, including everyone at 22cans. The amount could not be contained by the largest vessel on the seas. Bringing it up hurts the discussion of the topic at hand and by extension the interactivity between the community and the studio. Furthermore it hurts the forum because of several reasons. It likely impacts negatively on the relationship between us and 22cans. This leads to a decreased willingness on the part of 22cans to interact with us. Existing members grow tired of posting because it's always the same old crap. Potential new members don't join because they are not interested in the same old crap. Some new members join only because they want to pile on the heap of same old crap but will likely not post again afterwards. All further hurting the symbiotic relationship. It seems we're in a downward spiral and I would like to break away from that. All of this I say for the benefit of the community. That said, this forum exists because of the need for truth, openness and honesty. Negative opinions are very much a part of our existence, they are in fact at the core of our origin. But I think they need to be contained in the topics where they are actually applicable. (Please read in the same tone as 25th hour rant for better understanding of the intent. Please don't read it like a Hitler's speech.) I hereby allow myself to disagree. This "baggage", as you call it, is a simple awareness of actual problem that never gone away and not even once was irrelevant. When I see Godus going on sale, I feel tired because there's no game to sell. When I see once again a Combat update, I see that it is a completely misdirected effort. Yes, the meager skeleton crew of interns are doing their best, but the part of the game they're working has no fundament under it and thereby useless. That's precisely why they have trouble putting it in the game.When I see Aynen liking only the posts telling us to calm down and accept us being swindled, fucked over, ignored at every single inconvenient moment and attacked at every occasion possible, while accusing us of personal attacks (which itself is a personal attack in poor disguise), I can't help but remember being called an immoral person before by 22Cans community management once. When I see the same old crap posts, I know that the reason of this is not our inertia and continuing to post the same old crap - it's 22Cons doing the same old crap and calling it "something new" each damn time. Our relation with 22Cans? Really? Our relationship hasn't changed for several years - they're the same old swindlers and we're the same old victims trying to demand justice and trying to get over the incident. All the while they keep abusing us while keeping in touch for keeping a good image. In their own eyes. Decreased willingness in contact with us? I don't see any of that willingness anyway. I haven't seen any of the real questions answered, not since Simon took over, not before Simon took over. It's the same old crap, just as you said. But it's not our crap, that's what matters. I've already said that Russians are only good at literature, warfare and national pride. So I'm not good at allowing anyone humiliate me and get away with it. I'm not good at bowing down to criminals and liars. And I'm sure as hell am not good at letting go the fact that you're in a fit of Stockholm syndrome trying to make us undermine our own position just because it contradicts the wrong side and affects their feelings making them feel not as good and content with themselves. And yes, I do have the right to judge about right and wrong here, as I'm a victim of a contract breach. Good faith? It was used up more than a year ago. |
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 24, 2015 23:57:22 GMT
It seems like you are all not getting the point.
You can have any opinion that you want to. You have the freedom to create as many threads as you want to in order to present and discuss your opinions. But there is no need to poison every single thread with aggravations that are already being presented in countless other threads and have no dealing with the topic at hand. Sure, indirectly it is all connected, because all of it is related to godus and/or 22cans. That doesn't make it on-topic.
Over time I have put a huge amount of my personal time into creating and maintaining this forum and I have put a lot of work into trying to build an interesting and fun community. Lately I've been finding it disappointing to read my own forum and that's just sad. Quite frankly I'm starting to get a little pissed off about it too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 0:12:49 GMT
I feel that it should be possible to discuss a specific topic without throwing in all the bagage of the past at every occasion. We are all aware of the rather significant amount of bagage, including everyone at 22cans. The amount could not be contained by the largest vessel on the seas. Bringing it up hurts the discussion of the topic at hand and by extension the interactivity between the community and the studio. Furthermore it hurts the forum because of several reasons. It likely impacts negatively on the relationship between us and 22cans. This leads to a decreased willingness on the part of 22cans to interact with us. Existing members grow tired of posting because it's always the same old crap. Potential new members don't join because they are not interested in the same old crap. Some new members join only because they want to pile on the heap of same old crap but will likely not post again afterwards. All further hurting the symbiotic relationship. It seems we're in a downward spiral and I would like to break away from that. All of this I say for the benefit of the community. That said, this forum exists because of the need for truth, openness and honesty. Negative opinions are very much a part of our existence, they are in fact at the core of our origin. But I think they need to be contained in the topics where they are actually applicable. (Please read in the same tone as 25th hour rant for better understanding of the intent. Please don't read it like a Hitler's speech.) I hereby allow myself to disagree. This "baggage", as you call it, is a simple awareness of actual problem that never gone away and not even once was irrelevant. When I see Godus going on sale, I feel tired because there's no game to sell. When I see once again a Combat update, I see that it is a completely misdirected effort. Yes, the meager skeleton crew of interns are doing their best, but the part of the game they're working has no fundament under it and thereby useless. That's precisely why they have trouble putting it in the game.When I see Aynen liking only the posts telling us to calm down and accept us being swindled, fucked over, ignored at every single inconvenient moment and attacked at every occasion possible, while accusing us of personal attacks (which itself is a personal attack in poor disguise), I can't help but remember being called an immoral person before by 22Cans community management once. When I see the same old crap posts, I know that the reason of this is not our inertia and continuing to post the same old crap - it's 22Cons doing the same old crap and calling it "something new" each damn time. Our relation with 22Cans? Really? Our relationship hasn't changed for several years - they're the same old swindlers and we're the same old victims trying to demand justice and trying to get over the incident. All the while they keep abusing us while keeping in touch for keeping a good image. In their own eyes. Decreased willingness in contact with us? I don't see any of that willingness anyway. I haven't seen any of the real questions answered, not since Simon took over, not before Simon took over. It's the same old crap, just as you said. But it's not our crap, that's what matters. I've already said that Russians are only good at literature, warfare and national pride. So I'm not good at allowing anyone humiliate me and get away with it. I'm not good at bowing down to criminals and liars. And I'm sure as hell am not good at letting go the fact that you're in a fit of Stockholm syndrome trying to make us undermine our own position just because it contradicts the wrong side and affects their feelings making them feel not as good and content with themselves. And yes, I do have the right to judge about right and wrong here, as I'm a victim of a contract breach. Good faith? It was used up more than a year ago. While "Stockholm Syndrome" would perhaps work better in an alternate context, I find myself in wholesale agreement with morsealworth. As a matter of fact, this same conversation has come up before. A week or two ago, someone compared 22Cans' business practices to those of EA and Ubisoft. The PR manager first attempted to turn it into a personal attack against himself, and then feigned obtuseness about how anyone could possibly perceive 22Cans as having done anything inequitable. We were told at the time that his reason for deflecting and denying reality was that he could have "a different perspective", which apparently presented a paradigm completely detached from reality, and that we were creating an unfair atmosphere which discouraged people at 22Cans from posting. I say now what I said then, if 22Cans were acting in good faith they would not refuse to discuss their own statements/actions and continually give the old company line while producing the same results. As such, there is very little value in mincing our words so the PR machines will post the company line a bit more often here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 0:18:38 GMT
I'm going to explore a bit into the cause of this whole phenomenon, which isn't exclusive to 22cans.
To draw it into context, without much appearing to be done otherwise...it really does appear that these updates are for show. I would like to think that they could become something more - would LOVE to see them become something more - but right now they just seem to be a newsletter of sorts without much feedback potential. That is why I would like to know why there isn't any developer contact allowed anymore, last we knew under production's orders.
If that happened, and people could actually discuss the game in context of offering feedback and feeling like they are participating in the Early Access program/Kickstarter development...that would be kind of a good thing, no?
Having the developers here would draw the discussion more towards actual game design and implementation of these designs, right?
After all the dev team themselves aren't responsible for any of the litany of problems with 22cans.
But why do they arise?
It would make sense that much of the gruff expressed around these update items is from a PRODUCTION nature, which would then preclude much DESIGN discussion. With production issues serving as an elephant in the room, there's nothing else to really distract from them, and right now it feels like any feedback might as well be discussing the colours of the cake layers for how they might be brought on by 22cans.
This seems like such a simple thing, that folks are looking on in utter disbelief. Such as my - albeit a little rude - reaction to a mistake that arose from a bit of poor planning initially in this thread.
I'm left wondering what is going on there, and that information void would naturally lead the topic to drift into that direction anyways.
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 25, 2015 0:45:53 GMT
There is something to be said for the idea that when the only feedback taken is across-the-board approval of existing plans by sockpuppet upvotes, then "feedback" becomes nothing more than a buzzword for PR. I mean, what's this supposed to be, a friendly acknowledgement of constructive criticism? 13thGeneral I think the phrase "tiling at windmills" applies here. Well, 13th wasn't exactly showing across-the-board approval in his post. Far from it. But it wasn't across-the-board negative either. It's not like there's no room for negativity. But all negativity all the time makes Jack a dull boy. Sure, but to be fair, so does all positivity, so if you want more "bi-partisanship" that cuts both ways. |
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Post by Qetesh on Jul 25, 2015 0:59:57 GMT
I feel that it should be possible to discuss a specific topic without throwing in all the bagage of the past at every occasion. We are all aware of the rather significant amount of bagage, including everyone at 22cans. The amount could not be contained by the largest vessel on the seas. Bringing it up hurts the discussion of the topic at hand and by extension the interactivity between the community and the studio. Furthermore it hurts the forum because of several reasons. It likely impacts negatively on the relationship between us and 22cans. This leads to a decreased willingness on the part of 22cans to interact with us. Existing members grow tired of posting because it's always the same old crap. Potential new members don't join because they are not interested in the same old crap. Some new members join only because they want to pile on the heap of same old crap but will likely not post again afterwards. All further hurting the symbiotic relationship. It seems we're in a downward spiral and I would like to break away from that. All of this I say for the benefit of the community. That said, this forum exists because of the need for truth, openness and honesty. Negative opinions are very much a part of our existence, they are in fact at the core of our origin. But I think they need to be contained in the topics where they are actually applicable. I disagree, this is like when a spouse cheats on a mate and then gets mad at the other spouse for not forgetting it. I believe in forgiveness when it's due, but you don't forget, you should not forget. You also should not be told that the past does not matter or is not relevant, it very much is. When someone does you a wrong and you continue to be upset it was still caused by their wrong. There is also the fact of sheer broken trust. Broken by nobody but 22cans and since my ring is not from them and the onus falls on them, then all they do in the future can and should be weighed against what they did in the past. It is their baggage they brought it on this trip and now they have to deal with it being here. This was a business dealing pure and simple, they want forgiveness, they can refund my money or make the game they promised over 2 years ago. As far as if this is applicable ...I am exceedingly unhappy about combat being the main new coat of paint when the engine on the car is still very broken. This is why I don't post much, I have nothing much good to say, but now I have an opinion about this and it all wraps up into the same old stuff, but that is not my fault, it just is what it is. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 1:10:33 GMT
It seems like you are all not getting the point. You can have any opinion that you want to. You have the freedom to create as many threads as you want to in order to present and discuss your opinions. But there is no need to poison every single thread with aggravations that are already being presented in countless other threads and have no dealing with the topic at hand. Sure, indirectly it is all connected, because all of it is related to godus and/or 22cans. That doesn't make it on-topic. Over time I have put a huge amount of my personal time into creating and maintaining this forum and I have put a lot of work into trying to build an interesting and fun community. Lately I've been finding it disappointing to read my own forum and that's just sad. Quite frankly I'm starting to get a little pissed off about it too. Look, I understand that. I'm inclined to believe that everyone here understands that. But there is no functional community/developer relationship. We post "grievances". We post some more "grievances". We post "grievances" on a daily basis. And every so often, somebody from 22Cans taps out a banal message and then leaves for periods stretching from days to weeks to months. The community manager has not addressed the community in any substantial way for two months. The PR manager flees from the community whenever he's caught with his pants down. The CEO taunts the community and resembles some sort of Randian character. If Godus was still in active development and the developers bothered to address our "grievances", then there'd be a few more topics to discuss. What's the difference the posts here on the SpaceBase Steam forums and the discussions on these forums, beyond the fact that we're still receiving mobile content packs from a skeleton crew and so can say "22Cans should put more people on the game and develop feature X" instead of "DoubleFine should put ANY people on SpaceBase DF-9 and develop feature Y"? We can make as many off-topic boards and social boards as we want, but at the end of the day the community is as "fun and interesting" as the development/quality of the game the dozen or so active people on this discussion board are discussing. I'm not quite sure what there is to be pissed off about. Feel free to pipe up. Public relations are sorely needed for this game.
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